This is a transcript of the Podcast – The Downfall of Our Economic System and the Rise of Bitcoin with Max Keiser – You can listen the audio here
Nye : What is going on everybody, what is going on? Is your boy Nye, and welcome to another episode of Evolvement, the financial podcast where we talk about Bitcoin, cryptocurrency and the future of our financial systems.
Nye : First off, I want to give a shout out to our sponsors ZenLedger, zenledger.io. With ZenLedger, you’re able to complete your cryptocurrency tax forms simply and easily using APIs from all of your exchanges. It organizes them all together, puts them all together it’s what I have been using for my cryptocurrency taxes this tax season. If you want to learn more about ZenLedger, head over to zenledger.io.
Nye : Today I’ve got a really special guest on the line, I have Max Keiser. It was really an honor to sit down with this guy. This guy’s a genius at economics, he knows a lot about the history of money and all those different things, and it was really an honor to sit down with him.
Nye : We spoke about the future financial crisis, how Bitcoin plays a role in it, what his predictions are, what his opinions are. Please excuse the audio, we were sitting outside of the hotel in Los Angeles when we were recording it, but it’s still a great episode, guys check it out I hope you enjoy it.
Nye : What is going on everybody, what is going? Today I have a very, very special guest on the podcast with me, we’ve got Max Keiser. Max, how you doing, my man?
Max Keiser : Nye, this is cool, glad to be here.
Nye : Glad to have you on.
Nye : We’re sitting out here in LA, and it’s beautiful, beautiful sunny day. And we’re just going to dive into it, just chat a little bit about what the future of our economic systems look like, our financial systems. And man, before we do, I just kind of want to know who are you, how did you get into Bitcoin and, really, I want to know what inspired you in the very beginning into learning more about our economic system and seeing maybe where there’s some challenges, difficulties, and what inspired you to kind of take this direction on with your entire life and career?
Max Keiser : Well with Bitcoin, it started in 2011. So on the Keiser Report, we had Jon Matonis on, he was setting up the Bitcoin foundation at that time. He came out of one of the encrypted email services, and he came on and talked about Bitcoin and it’s a decentralized digital scarce commodity.
Max Keiser : Now I had been in Los Angeles in the mid 90s, and I created the Hollywood Stock Exchange and, as part of that, I had to create a virtual currency; which is really more of a centralized digital scarcity coin at that time. So the technology around the virtual specialist technology and we got a patent on that, so it’s really the first commercial patented prediction market is the Hollywood Stock Exchange it was launched in 1996.
Max Keiser : And all the technology to create the pricing of the virtual securities on that exchange required this technology, this virtual specialist technology. And it’s a very cumbersome and awkward technology, compared to Bitcoin and a decentralized digital scarcity model that it puts forward.
Max Keiser : And so I immediately recognize it as a huge leap in the field of virtual currencies and started to get involved, started buying Bitcoin and also investing in startups, like BitPay, and BitSo, and BitPesa in Kenya, Kraken we have a big position in and other exchanges ShapeShift we own some ShapeShift stock; and so we’ve been investing in the sector pretty much ever since.
Max Keiser : So going before that I was a stockbroker in the early 1980s, I started on Wall Street in 1983. And that was really just to as a job really, I was just getting out of New York University and I just loved the Wall Street environment; it was fantastic. So I stayed there for seven years, and I did pretty well because it was the 1980s and it was just a boom times. And that took me to 1990 wherein I went to Paris; I ended up living in Paris for five years just basically semi-retired, I guess you could say.
Max Keiser : And had a lot of fun and then this led to me then going to Los Angeles and creating the Hollywood Stock Exchange. But so my 30 years in the business really started off as a stockbroker, and as a stockbroker you have to really dive into all facets of the economy, and business, and finance, and currencies, and commodities, and stocks and bonds and really have to know what you’re talking about to be successful in that business; and so that kind of got me on my journey.
Nye : Like it man, I like it. I was doing a little bit of research on the Hollywood Stock Exchange over the last few days. It kind of seems like the very first version of a security token, in a way. Is that kind of the way that you view it, or is there some differences and similarities there?
Max Keiser : Well, we stayed away from being a security because initially my partner, Michael Burns, and I were going to create a box offers futures contract that you could actually trade on one of the futures exchanges. But when you look into it, it’s very expensive, and the regulatory hurdles are pretty high. So then we took a step back and say, “Well, let’s try a virtual exchange.” And so we created virtual securities with a virtual currency and created this gaming environment.
Max Keiser : But the gaming environment had to be quite robust, so we needed to have an environment where the prices were responding to both the supply and demand of the market, as well as more macro influences like trends in the Hollywood industry; and this virtual specialist technology had to make that all work.
Max Keiser : And I’ll give you an example is that because 98 percent of the users are white, the virtual specialist technology has an option to give greater waiting to projects that feature black actors or black directors in such a way it’s easier to move them higher with less volume. So this creates a certain price parity amongst all the securities to accommodate for the demographics of the game of the users. Otherwise you would have prices not reflect the underlying basic economic assumptions that are based on trailing box office.
Max Keiser : So, that’s the technology now that’s owned by Cantor Fitzgerald. Cantor Fitzgerald bought it in 2001, and it’s interesting because they can use it and they do use it to create price directions for derivatives. If you see that they do a lot of derivatives trading and there’s a way to use that technology to steer the path of prices up or down. And I would pause it that they do so in a way that would be more manipulative than not.
Nye : I like it, I like it, that’s interesting, that’s really interesting. And one of the main things that I really want to talk about on our podcast, I want learn from you about your vision, your perspective on our economic system. I have like a pretty good understanding of where you are coming from. I think everybody in the space here in the blockchain space, or at least the large majority of people here are passionate about changing our system, moving our system.
Nye : You’ve been passionate about it even since the very beginning of Bitcoin. Like 2009, 2010 you had, I think, it was the [inaudible 00:08:11] by silver or crashed JP Morgan, I can’t remember specifically which one it was. How did that initiative arise for you, what drove that, and was that at the time you were learning about Bitcoin or was this something that you were starting before Bitcoin, how does that all play into this part of who you are?
Max Keiser : I guess it goes back to when I was working on Wall Street. So you have an insider view on how banks work and how Wall Street works. And Wall Street works by being able to cover over mistakes, by showing lots of new bonds at lower interest rates. And so we’ve been in a bond bull market for 37 years, interest rates have been trending down for 37 years. The government bond market, the US Treasury government bond market is in the biggest bubble ever in history; it’s trading at 240 year high.
Max Keiser : The British gilt market or bond market’s trading at a 300 year hot. This is truly a remarkable bubble, and that bubble is fed by central banks buying back their own fiat currency issued paper to keep interest rates low, to make it easier for banks to bury their mistakes by just rolling them forward at a lower interest rate.
Max Keiser : So there’s this huge machine, the bond [inaudible 00:09:36] machine and the bond salesmen on Wall Street that just cover over mistakes; now in 2008, we had a great example of this. There was a huge credit freeze, the global economy was at a standstill, and Wall Street got together and they issued trillions of dollars worth of new paper to cover over all their mistakes and to keep the Ponzi scheme going.
Max Keiser : So I’ve been saying this for 30 years and, in my view, since I’m a capitalist, I believe that when companies, and banks, and corporations make mistakes, the market needs to punish them. You can’t have Catholicism without hell, you can’t have capitalism without failure and to simply bail out every bad mistake these banks make over and over again, it creates a situation that we have now, which is massive debt.
Max Keiser : People blame capitalism for the all the problems in the economy, when it’s not the problem with capitalism, it’s the problem of crooked banks and central banks who are acting as a racket; there racketeering. And so we start talking about gold and silver as a way to bring about sound money, because all this fakery is enabled by fiat money, paper money.
Max Keiser : And if you have true money in the system, like gold, it’s extremely difficult to do the kind of fraud that you see in the banking sector. So crash JP Morgan buy silver, that was after the 2008 crash, Bear Stearns which was bought by JP Morgan inherited this huge short position in silver. And if everyone bought silver and got the price up to $25 or $30 an ounce, you could bankrupt JP Morgan, because they wouldn’t be able to cover that short.
Max Keiser : And it got some traction, for a while the price went from $15 to up to $50, then JP Morgan was able to kind of wiggle their way out of it by doing a massive pounding of the price of silver; again using borrowed money. Then selling short, naked short selling contracts that are basically counterfeit sales contracts, futures contracts and they kind of wiggle their way out of it.
Max Keiser : But it highlighted the point that the banks are, basically, manipulating these markets in a huge way. And then enter Bitcoin, and Bitcoin immediately, you could see that it was as good as gold, it’s equivalent to gold. And so, in a lot of ways, it’s easier to handle than gold for millions of people. And this is the hard money solution away from bank fraud, so it’s just part and parcel of this really 30 year journey that I have been on both as insider working on Wall Street and then as an observer, or a commentator, or a technologist, inventor; so that’s that’s how it all connects.
Nye : Like it, I like it. You’re talking about this huge bull market and bull run on bonds and a huge bubble on bonds. What’s going to happen when that breaks? And what’s what’s going to happen (a) for the overall economy, in your perspective, and (b) for the average person who’s sitting at home has lived their life and might be 40, 50 years old and building up retirement? What’s going to happen for those people?
Max Keiser : Well, usually what happens in the global economy is that one the economy is up, then the one economy is down and the center of gravity for the global economy moves around to different countries at different times. And because, more often than not, we were on a gold standard, and or at least one country had gold or one country was identified as a commodity, or we had the petrodollar for a while.
Max Keiser : But in 1971, we had the beginning of an experiment that have never been tried and that is having fiat money tied to nothing; not any gold whatsoever. And no fiat money was [inaudible 00:13:43], it was all tied to every other fiat money. So you had this infinite regress of all fiat money referring to other fiat money.
Max Keiser : So central banks that could work together, or collude, as a book by Nomi Prins recently came out called Collusion, and she breaks us down quite specifically. It’s a way to keep the fiat money paper Ponzi scheme going globally, without anyone breaking ranks and saying, “Okay, we want to actually bring about a hard money into this mix and attract lots of capital.” No, they all work together to, simultaneously, destroy the purchasing power and to drive asset prices higher by what’s called the [inaudible 00:14:21] effect.
Max Keiser : So when the central bank prints lots of money, it goes to a certain group of people first; the people closest to the bank printing machine. And those people will buy your fine art, and chateaus, and property and then it kind of trickles down to the general economy, at some point. But by then the purchasing power has been eroded quite substantially, then you end up with this huge gap in wealth and income, which drives a lot of the demonstrations all over the world. I call it the global insurrection against banker occupation. So you see that with the [inaudible 00:14:55], you see that with Occupy Wall Street, you see that with the Arab Spring. All these protests are connected by people that have been screwed over by the central banks.
Max Keiser : And so this all started in 1971. And, of course, we’re at a point now I think where when you have 9.3 or 9.5. trillion government debt right now, that has a negative view. So these are government bonds that are issued at a loss for investors, you’re a guaranteed loss. They are creating this black hole of debt that is a guaranteed loser, that is getting to the point where it implodes.
Max Keiser : Now what that means is that the global currency grid has to be reset, and they’ll have to reset it against gold. So gold, at $1,300 an ounce could very quickly go to $6,000, $7,000 an ounce. Bitcoin, because it’s a commodity, goes to $100,000 an ounce, and the total global economies reset like was done in the Bretton Woods agreement after World War II.
Max Keiser : And you’ll see that start to flash a warning signal when interest rates start to tick up in a big way. So real inflation is going to start creeping into the economy … Here in the United States we’re insulated from inflation. We don’t pay for gas … What do we pay, $2, $3, $3.50 a gallon? When gas gets to $7, $8, $9 dollars a gallon, people are going to be like, “What’s going on? This is crippling the economy.”
Max Keiser : That’s real inflation and that’s coming back into the economy. And then we’ll see a massive reset; the global reset. So what does it mean for investors and savers, I mean, it means that you have to kind of ease out of paper assets, you have to use out of fiat paper assets and start moving back into commodities; gold, silver, Bitcoin.
Max Keiser : You should start doing it now, because once it becomes clear that there’s this big change and the secular bull market and bonds switches to a secular bear market and bonds, and interest rates go up every year for years, inflation is then back in the economy, the prices are going to start zipping ahead pretty quickly; so it’s better to be early than late.
Nye : And for people that are still skeptical on Bitcoin being the store value or this commodity that’s actually going to be around for a long time, what do you have to say to that? Because you’re saying start to, for people that want to get ahead of the curve, you start to putting your money into gold, silver and Bitcoin.
Nye : Bitcoin’s been around for a little bit over 10 years now, gold and silver have obviously been monies and stores of value for thousands, and hundreds of thousands of years; a long time. What do you say to skeptics of Bitcoin, and how can they be convinced about the value behind this and the potential economic crisis?
Max Keiser : Right, well I think, look at it very clearly, if you look at the white paper. All you have to do is substitute the word ‘cash’ for ‘gold’, then it all makes sense. You see, there’s a lot of confusion out there particularly in, let’s say, the Bitcoin cash camp. Where they believe that Bitcoin is designed as payment system and it’s cash, and it can’t scale as a cash payment system and therefore it’s a failure.
Max Keiser : If you look at the history of Bitcoin, it came out of the cyberpunk movement and the cyberpunk moment has been trying to create digital gold for years, and then the white paper solved this problem; they traded digital goal. It just put ‘gold’ where it says ‘cash’ in the white paper and you will understand much more about Bitcoin.
Max Keiser : And it’s a way they have achieved this, distributed digital scarcity and in electronic form that is equal in just about every single way to gold. So, if you are concerned about store value and you want to store value, you have gold, you have silver. The volatility in Bitcoin, of course, makes sense because it has to go from zero adoption to more pervasive adoption.
Max Keiser : If it achieves one, two percent or three percent of the market value of gold, which is roughly $8 trillion, or you have it getting into the … The daily Forex market is $5 trillion a day. So if we get even a one, or two percent of that or three percent of that, then the price of Bitcoin gets up to that hundred thousand dollar plus range, and then it starts to achieve some more of a stability, and the volatility ebbs away, and it becomes more of a store of value.
Max Keiser : The supply of gold, in my view, once there’s a huge shift out of paper assets into commodities like gold, it’s gonna be hard to even to get gold, it’s gonna be hard to source goal. There’re already bottlenecks in refiners in Switzerland, it’s hard to get gold, it’s hard to buy a billion dollars to [inaudible 00:20:36], and yet there’s $100 trillion dollars worth of investible assets around the world.
Max Keiser : You’ve got too many billionaires out there who are not going to just watch their paper money go to zero, they’re going to want to protect their paper money; they’re going to want gold. So, once that it’s hard to get gold, there’s going to be like “Okay, what else can we buy? I mean, okay we bought the fine art, we’ve got some property; there’s Bitcoin, we’re going to get Bitcoin because we’ve got to protect our wealth.” And as a safe haven as a hard money play, it’ll come into its own, and that’s going to drive adoption more than anything else.
Nye : I agree, I agree I was actually just sitting in Thailand last week with a guy who’s pretty big in the technology space and he was like, “Look, the next big, big wave for cryptocurrency, for Bitcoin is when the world sees why it’s necessary.” I mean people in Bitcoin and in crypto, we get it but a lot of people just going about their day to day lives are going to need to see the actual use case of it; a Venezuela example, things like that.
Max Keiser : Yeah, I think the crypto community is extremely insular and inward looking and gets involved in [inaudible 00:21:53] and battles and all kinds of tweet wars and they lose complete perspective of what’s happening. There’s then the introduction now, as a new asset class that is similar, if not equal, to gold and that is the first time that’s happened in thousands of years. And it’s going to be highly desirable in an environment where paper money becomes trash.
Max Keiser : I mean look at Venezuela, they’re littering the streets with their bolivars because it’s utter trash. And every single paper money in history has gone to zero, the average lifespan of a paper currency money has been 27 years. The British pound has been around a long time, but its purchasing power has dropped by 99.5 percent, which is just about the same as saying it’s gone to zero. No paper money has ever survived.
Max Keiser : So the dollar will not survive, the euro, the pound will not survive and what comes after it will be new paper money, new attempts to create paper money. But meanwhile gold, silver, Bitcoin are going to go do what they’ve done for thousands of years, maintain purchasing power, maintain store value status, in case of bitcoins the new kid on the block, and that will drive a huge amount of capital into this asset class.
Nye : So we’re looking at this as not only just a restructuring of the United States economy and, I mean, in one of your recent articles you said the next crash is going to be bigger than the 2008 events. So we’re not just looking at it, though, as a restructuring and a financial crisis in the US, we’re actually kind of looking at it as a global economic restructuring. Am I following that correctly?
Max Keiser : Yeah, absolutely. Because it goes back to the antecedent to this was the 1971 gold window closed by Nixon that ushered in the global paper money, infinite regress standard that had no tie to a tangible asset. I mean, there is the rise of the petrodollar, but that’s breaking apart now because you see there’s tremendous tension with Saudi, and the US, Middle East; you have what’s called de-dollarization, China, Russia are dumping the dollar, they’re buying hundreds of tons of gold/
Max Keiser : There’s de-globalization. Trump, he’s the guy who wants to get out of NATO, because he sees the US can’t afford to have all these military bases all over the world. I think that’s why this whole initiative to broker a peace deal in North Korea is that the US as a huge military operations in South Korea, it’s hugely wasteful. I mean, if you can shut that down-
Nye : Right.
Max Keiser : It would be a big money saver for the US. The US has 50, 60,000 troops in Germany as part of NATO, it will be great to be able to get those troops out of there; it’s too costly. They have a huge military base and Qatar in the Middle East, it would be great to get them … At least de-globalizing and de-dollarizing.
Max Keiser : So, again, that’s going to, at the moment, there’s a mad rush into the dollar because a lot of these currencies are suffering because of de-globalization, and they will go to the dollar; that’s their first port of call for safety. But at some point, the dollar then becomes unsustainable. And somebody like a Russia or a China is going to introduce some kind of gold-backed currency, or they’ll make an announcement that we’re starting to buy Bitcoin for our strategic reserves.
Max Keiser : Then the whole game theory aspect of Bitcoin kicks in on the state level, and you have countries now trying to hash their way toward Bitcoin supremacy; and so, there’s a global phenomenon, for sure. So the US will be the last pin to fall, I guess you could say, but there’s no way it’s going to survive or escape this global reset of all fiat money. Because they’re all tied to each other, and they’re all worthless, they’re all completely worthless.
Max Keiser : And if they have to issue negative interest bonds to keep these banks have afloat, there’s no greater red flag. I mean, they are literally … They’re just confiscating wealth at this point. They’re just taking money out of people’s pockets to keep the insolvent, zombie banks alive. And just like a Bernie Madoff scheme eventually popped, so does this global banking scheme; it’s going to pop.
Nye : Yeah, imagine that in the first step, the more that people move to the US dollar to trust the US dollar, the greedier the Federal Reserve will get and people will start to print more money because they see that the US dollar, at least for a temporary time, might be getting stronger as as people move, as much as they can into it. Which could result in, eventually, more instability and it could possibly lead to this whole event.
Max Keiser : Yeah, I think you’re right. Everyone switching into dollars like that, it takes diversity out of the system, becomes too contingent on one currency, and then that currency itself is not backed by anything, except the military. And so if you’re leaning too heavily on one … It’s a crowded trade to use the Wall Street term.
Nye : Exactly.
Max Keiser : So once it becomes … the last buyer shows up with that last order for that last dollar, then any single sell order of even 50 cents will start to avalanche the price down.
Nye : Exactly, exactly. And what’s the time frame you kind of see on something like that. I think that’s the million dollar question. No one can answer it for a fact, but what’s your opinion?
Max Keiser : Well, I think you’re searching for the pain to pop the bubble. So the question is “What’ the pin that’s going to pop the bubble?” So my leading candidate would be Deutsche Bank which, similar to Lehman Brothers, looks like it’s about to blow up; and that could cause a contagion of banking disasters.
Max Keiser : And there won’t be any global bailout this time, because what the banks did with the money they took from the last bailout, which leveraged themselves up 10 times greater than even what they were in 2008. So unless they want to print $150 trillion dollars of paper money, and there’s just going to have to be this global reset; there won’t be any bailouts.
Max Keiser : They’re already doing bail-ins of negative interest rates, so they will have hit … So Deutsche Bank, I think, is a key piece of the global puzzles to watch. They have this huge derivatives portfolio, they’re either the first or second biggest in the world, something like 200 something trillion dollars with the derivative.
Max Keiser : And then another piece would be this Brexit, what’s going on there. This is really an interesting situation because that could set off a bit of a chain reaction in the banking sector, as well; and that’s coming pretty quickly. Then you have just huge crisis in sectors like the pensions in America are underfunded by astronomical amounts. And once those things start to collapse, that could set off a domino effect.
Max Keiser : So it’s just a matter of what’s the pin going to be the pop the bubble, and the cycle, the timing of it usually things happen every 8, 9, 10 years; so now it’s been about 10 years since the last one. All the valuations are at extremes, the political situation is highly tense, so I would … it feels ripe, it’s hard to call the exact moment, but it just feels ripe.
Max Keiser : A lot of money moving into gold, and I think that’s people preparing for this. And I think we’re seeing some support in Bitcoin even though the dollar is really strong. The dollar, that’s really the biggest headwinds for Bitcoin right now in my view is the strength of the dollar. Once the dollar starts to roll over, then you’ll start to see Bitcoin really start to resume the bull market.
Nye : Like it, I like it. I mean, I don’t like it but you know what I mean. I understand what you’re getting at and you shared a little bit about some of these indicators that people need to look out for like interest rates rising and things like that. What are some other indicators that people should be aware of when leading up to a financial crisis or something that may occur?
Max Keiser : Well, I mean, there’s nothing better than interest rates because interest rates are they the EKG of the global economy. And when interest rates are going up and it’s like that’s signaling stress in the system. And they should have been going up before but they’ve been kept low by the artificial stimulation of money printing, and the central banks buying back their own debt, debt monetization, quantitative easing.
Max Keiser : So, the symptoms have been masked, but the underlying patient is dying. In 2008, the global economy died, and it’s a dead fish that’s being infused with cash to give it the appearance of life.
Nye : We’re just sitting with a defibrillator, like over and over-
Max Keiser : Right.
Nye : Trying to keep it alive.
Max Keiser : Exactly. It’s like “Clear. Clear” Right, and it’s not coming back to life, there’s no economic scenario where GDP rises at a rate that would be commensurate with a paying off debt.
Nye : Right.
Max Keiser : The way the debt’s paid off is through GDP growth, tax collection. And there is no growth scenario that could ever pay down this debt. And the interest on the US debt, just the interest on the debt, is getting to like half a trillion. So once, once you can’t even pay the interest on your debt, then you are officially in into Banana Republic stage, and you have hyper-inflationary currency collapse. But the reason why that is not happening, as such right now, is because it’s all coordinated so all these central banks and all their fiat money, they coordinate to mask that underlying weakness.
Max Keiser : So they deferred the day of reckoning, but, yeah, you can’t do it forever. And the geopolitical situation’s definitely deteriorating. This China, Russia, the US, Iran, these countries, Germany are all now on a bit of … They’re not into the globalization kumbaya phase, they’re into a de-globalization, winner take all phase. We’re starting to see the inklings of some hostilities.
Nye : Interesting. Very interesting. And what do you think about all these other cryptocurrency? We got, obviously, Bitcoin is the leader, it’s king and has been for the majority of, all the time. What do you think about Ethereum smart contracts, you see value in there? What about all these other, for lack of a better word, trade coins that are out there and people are trading around? Do you just see them as the ways the traders make more Bitcoin, or do you think that there’s actually value in some of these projects?
Max Keiser : Well, I used to talk more about altcoins a few years ago, certainly in … So, I’ve been talking about this since 2011 on my show. So 2011, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, I would talk about these other coins like Ethereum actually launched on my show, Cardano launched on my show.
Max Keiser : Some students in Bristol University launch Max Coin on my show as a student project and. But then about three, three and a half years ago, I decided to just focus on Bitcoin because that’s every … Bitcoin does now or will do anything any altcoin does. There’s no reason for any of these other altcoins, in my view.
Max Keiser : I mean, I like Charlie Lee, I like Litecoin I like the fact that they did [inaudible 00:00:00] on Litcoin, and I think he brings some value to the community. I like Fluffy Bunny, I like Narrow because it’s got a great community of hackers and guys like that. And I think the community is great, but other than that once you get into crypto Twitter land, you’re into this vicious cycle of pump and dump, which is not healthy, in my view.
Max Keiser : It just brings in too much uninformed speculation and just focusing on Bitcoin is enough for 99 percent of the population out there. So I that’s my idea, I don’t really want to get into these other areas. And I really like what’s happening with Lighting, I was talking to Elizabeth Stark yesterday about what she’s doing there, and I am absolutely excited to bits about Jack Dorsey, and he’s really taken on Bitcoin; I would say he’s a Bitcoin maximalist. And people try to pitch him on other coins and he kind of shut them down immediately.
Nye : Yeah, it’s pretty funny to see that, actually.
Max Keiser : Yeah. And so here he’s an 800 pound gorilla in the space. He’s a guy that the protocol pulled in, he’s the right kind of guy you want. The cash app is brilliant, and that’s where this industry is going. And my visibility actually, it’s just too high to talk about these smaller coins, because it’s just people start to get into these retracted skirmishes where they’re trying to game theory each other, and it just becomes a mess, it’s like.
Max Keiser : So, my value is to try to just focus on the macro, raise awareness of Bitcoin, keep pestering people to buy Bitcoin, and put out the truck, try to put out the big picture about Bitcoin. And I think everyone eventually becomes a maximalist, it’s like the altcoin market it’s like basically you’re in your adolescent years, and then you become a maximalist essentially, I think, as you mature in this industry and you realize you need to just focus on the big picture.
Nye : I like that. I like that, no it’s I mean, I’m starting to find myself more and more leaning towards the main yeah, of course, of Bitcoin being the main one, and I’ve completely stopped trading at this point. It’s gotten to be a mess like, like you said, crypto Twitter mess, it’s a giant cesspool of aggressive individuals; it’s interesting.
Max Keiser : Well I’ve seen this before, like when I started on Wall Street in the 1980s we were in our 20s. And it became the chief profitable game, and then we had the crash of ’87. And then it became less profitable and less fun. And then I started a dotcom in the 90s and that was oh loads of fun for a few years, and the NASDAQ was like 5,000 or so; then that crashed, and that wasn’t as much fun anymore.
Nye : Yeah.
Max Keiser : Then crypto crashed and now it’s not fun. People are at each other’s throats, because they didn’t really understand why they got involved to begin with. Now they’re sitting on losses and they don’t understand why they are sitting on losses. And so it’s just the cycle repeats itself over and over again and it creates room for people like Paul Krugman or Nouriel Roubini to come in and gain some attention by making highly uninformed, absurd comments that obviously prove they’ve never spent more than five minutes looking at this technology.
Max Keiser : But getting picked up by New York Times or other media outlets as, somehow, having an informed opinion which they don’t. Warren Buffett has no idea what he’s talking about, and yet he gets a lot of attention because there’s just so much garbage out there. CNBC, man, what’s wrong with those people?
Nye : Yeah (laughing)
Max Keiser : They just, for six months, they just put any crazy lunatic on there talking nonsense and they did the industry tremendous disservice; fortunately Bitcoin doesn’t care. And it doesn’t give a f**k right? So it’s just another part of the process to get through another cycle and will continue to get where it needs to go and it’s just going to continue to get adoption, price is going to continue to go higher, people are going to continue to hate it, banks are going to continue to try to attack it, but it was just keep going higher and higher, and the adoption will keep getting wider, and you just gotta be patient, and that’s the way it is.
Nye : Awesome, I love it, I love it. Man, hey thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me today, man and-
Max Keiser : Well thank you for inviting me. I follow you on Twitter, you’re one of the rare people that I follow on Twitter, in the crypto space. I don’t know why I think it’s because of your hair.
Nye : That’s the whole point of the hair, so I guess it’s doing its job.
Max Keiser : It worked. This guy’s got cool hair, I’m going to follow him.
Nye : Perfect. That’s exactly my plan, strategy complete, I love it.
Max Keiser : Very good.
Nye : Yeah, where can people watch the Keiser Report, where can they learn more about you?
Max Keiser : Oh, well we broadcast three times a week on RT and then that’s on YouTube, usually the same day, and dubbed into Spanish; we have a tremendous Spanish speaking audience, particularly in Mexico, they love the Keiser Report.
Max Keiser : And it’s great when I travel around the world, people … Our show goes to 100 different countries. So people come out all the time and saying “Hey thanks to you, I bought Bitcoin at $10, $20 made a shit load of money on Bitcoin.” And that’s fun.
Max Keiser : I think I would theorize that we’ve created more Bitcoin millionaires than anybody in the world, and I have absolutely no data to back that up, making that claim without any backup; but I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Yeah, because, yeah, that was a fantastic moment. Any numb nuts teenager in bumf**k nowhere could make a million bucks, and that was fun. But now it’s a slightly different era, but gotta take hold of the big picture.
Nye : Yeah.
Max Keiser : We gotta f**k the bankers.
Nye : That’s the plan.
Max Keiser : Burn the bankers.
Nye : Okay.
Max Keiser : Destroy the bankers.
Nye : Love it, dude. Amen. Thank you, brother.
Max Keiser : All right.
Nye : Appreciate it.
Max Keiser : See ya.
Nye : All right everybody, thanks for tuning in. this is another episode of Evolved in the financial podcast. I want to give a big thank you to Max Keiser, Max is really the man. He’s very knowledgeable on these subjects and had a lot of great information to share with us today. So I’m really honored and really blessed to sit down with this guy, but beyond that Max is just a f**king cool dude. We hung out for the little time in LA and then the guy’s just a great guy, just a great guy.
Nye : So appreciate that and thanks for tuning in everyone.