How Decred Revolutionizes Funding in Crypto With Marco Peereboom – Transcript

This is a transcript of the Podcast – How Decred Revolutionizes Funding in Crypto with Marco Peereboom – You can listen the audio here

N: What is going on everybody it is your boy Nye and welcome to the next episode of the Evolvement podcast where we talk about Bitcoin, cryptocurrency and the future of our financial systems. Today I’ve got a really really special guest on here I’ve got Marco Peerboom from Decred, Marco what’s going on my brother?

M: Hey man it’s going well, hacking throughout my days, and you know getting the next fun thing going on for Decred.

N: Cool bro that’s exciting.
We met a few times, I mean we’ve been following each other on Twitter for a while we met in Chicago, I think that was the first time we met and we hung out.
Marco’s a really good guy and I’m super glad to just sit down with and chat a little bit about Decred because it was pretty recently over the last couple of months, that I really started to look heavily into it you know, I had always heard about it since about I think May or June time frame of 2018, I’d started to hear about Decred more and more, and I’d always been interested in what separates it from other projects in the space, and what you guys are doing. So I’m glad to be able to sit down man this is going to be fun.

M: Well thank you for having me on.

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N: No problem, why don’t we just start off a little bit about yourself man, how did you get started in crypto, what’s your background and what led you to what you’re doing today?

M: Well so I’m actually by training a Double E, but I always had a software problem so I always actually wrote code instead of you know acting out on my Double E, things that I came out of College with, but I always worked in operating systems and from operating systems I was always Interested in security bits of that, that just naturally lead to crypto.
So I’m an old Genix guy that you know has always been involved in and around the crypto space.
So I wrote a bunch of operating system codes, I worked at Dell actually for a very long time, over there I did a variety of things for you no storage and servers you know, from there I started the business with Jake Yocom-Piatt which may be a familiar name to some of your listeners.
So he is one of the founders of the Decred project, so we worked on a backup product for a while that did not sell as well as we wanted, so we pivoted into cryptocurrencies and you know from there Decred was, you know came to be.

N: That’s awesome, that’s fantastic. And before we start to dive into Decred, start to talk a little more about that, I’m curious about what is your perception of the crypto space right now.
You know we’re sitting here we recording this January 14th of 2019, we’re still in the middle of a bear market, we’re a little bit over a year in, we’ve seen the huge hype phase of 2017/2018 and then also the huge decline as well as the huge bear market, kind of the dying of ICO’s and many many other things, the beginning of security tokens and things like that.

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What’s your overall impression of the space what are you excited about what are you not excited about things like that?

M: Ok yep, so I actually have not very popular opinions on some of this stuff.
I’ve been in the space for a long time and you know, I remember 2014 and 2015 and you know 2013 to a degree. This is a repeat of that, although there’s a bit more excitement this time around and I think actually the thing that folks may not realise is that we may not be in the middle of a bear market, we may actually be at the beginning of a bear market.
So and I know that one is not a opinion that people love, but if you think about how much money was essentially generated during 2017, it was pretty crazy right so you just close your eyes and things were worth more money.
So a lot of money was accumulated and a lot of people actually cashed out, so with that a lot of projects are still around that actually in all honesty should not be around, they should have gone bankrupt at this point. But they generated so much cash that they still around.
So I think that we still have a little bit of ways to go actually by getting rid of some of these not-so-good projects.
So I think that’s where we’re standing right now and I think there’s going to be a bit of a shake out and the really solid players are going to remain, and remain more solid.
So if you look at a project like Decred we are unaffected essentially by the crunch right now, because we never overspent, we never did crazy things.
For example I love boat parties, but I don’t want to pay for boat parties! so I’ll show up at your boat party but I’m not going to pay for one.
So we never spent our treasury you know like sailors, we always were very careful where we spend money and we try to spend it on things that actually have value in the longer term.
That’s why we’re not flashy right, you always hear people complain about Decred ‘Oh why is it not more marketing’ Well that does not necessarily add code and value.

N: I mean of course, but I mean you can’t lie, like your jackets are pretty flashy man! hahaha

M: I can promise you get those are not you know, they don’t cost a million and a half.

N: No yeah I know, I’m just teasing you, yeah those jackets are really cool the first time I saw one was actually with Dumin Seattle and I said that’s a sweet jacket, he said ‘yeah’.

M: Yeah there’s no debate that the Decred jacket has helped us convey the brands, but you know it’s more silly than a serious financial commitment.

N: Of course of course, and yeah I mean you guys have some cool funding models, you guys have a whole different structure on the halvening process that’s been in Bitcoin Whitepaper and been popular with Bitcoin and Litecoin and things like that.

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N: We’re going to get all into that but can we just start with a really simple question for people that don’t know what is Decred?

M: Ok so actually I’ve come to the conclusion best way to describe Decred is it’s a cryptocurrency that is going to be around for a longer time, so Longevity it’s really our pitch if you will.
So, if you start talking about governance people’s eyes just glaze over because it’s just not a sexy topic, but what it enables and this is the important bit, is it enables you to be around for a much longer period of time because you have a change mechanism right, you have a change process.
So if something bad happens there is a way to react to that without splintering the community, and that is what Decred is at its core.
It’s a cryptocurrency but with the ability to change some hard rules like you know protocol and consensus.

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N: Interesting interesting. And a lot of people out there are talking about Bitcoin as the digital gold, Litecoin as possibly the digital silver and I’ve seen a couple of people say that Decred is similar to the digital Platinum.
Is this something like the Decred team agrees with, or do you just don’t even want to touch that subject, what’s your opinion on all of that?

M: I think it’s a little silly to compare cryptocurrencies to, you know to stuff that was created you know in the core of the sun.
So I find that a bit odd, I get why people do that right because it it brings cryptocurrency into more explicable space.
You know it’s complicated stuff and in order to, you know analogies work and go a long way to explain how it works. So I understand it but I personally find it a little bit silly to do that.
I will take the compliment though, sure Decred is the platinum of the cryptocurrencies I’ll take it.

N: Nice, yeah I think people just want something to relate to.

M: Yeah and I honestly completely understand that.
But you know if you want to actually push that a little bit, right so where does platinum have governance right? the analogy ends very quickly, it’s very superficial.

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N: Definitely. So how did the project form, what was the beginning of it and what is the whole, I guess we just start with what is the whole goal of Decred in terms of changing the cryptocurrency ecosystem, like why is it important?

M: So a little bit of history, we worked in and around Bitcoin with conformal systems, so we did some products, we did some things.
So we were pretty familiar already with the code, we had written a tool or actually a full Bitcoin node called BTCD, and the entire thing was called the BTC Suite.
And it’s the second most used Bitcoin implementation in the world, so it’s not that we came from a ‘we don’t know we talking about here’. And when we delivered that, actually folks were not as happy as we expected them to be, because we actually unbeknown to us pushed the power structure around a little bit, and they didn’t like that.
So it turns out that you know, the folks that were writing the core code, prefer to stick with the core code.
Who Knew right, so even though they are preaching open source and all that kind of stuff. So it was not welcome as much as we thought it would.
So that set us back a little bit and then you know while working in the space there was a lot of push back you know to anything we were doing, because they just saw us as a threat.
So that was unfun, and that is actually where the desire to do something different originated, that’s why we started thinking about doing Decred, and then you know we were approached by some folks who had some ideas on how to iterate on Bitcoin, so Jake was approached and we decided to go do that, and you know we pivoted and we started doing Decred.

N: Interesting very cool.

M: So in a sense actually, Decred exists for the same reasons like Etherium exists right, it’s by unhappiness in the Bitcoin community and thinking that you can iterate and make certain things better, and then it gets rejected by the powers that be.

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N: And what were some of those things that you were specifically looking at and saying ‘I think that we can do this better’ and the Bitcoin core community or whoever it was just turned around and said ‘No we’re not going to do that’ ?

M: Well so I think we’ve got to be a little bit careful here so first things first though, I’m a huge fan of Bitcoin.
And so people often think the things I say is criticism and it’s not.
It is, Bitcoin solves one problem, does it really well and very elegantly and I absolutely love it, I felt though that I needed to have additional features in my cryptocurrency to enable certain things, and one of them was that longevity thing.
So I’m not speaking iIl of Bitcoin at all here, if anything I’m speaking a little bit ill of the community around surrounding it that is cult like and is assuming certain things that are just weird and odd right, and they treat it as if you know it’s been handed down by a deity.
And that’s not what it is right, it’s software at the end of the day. Does that make sense? So anyway but for us what really mattered was that we could not exert influence over it, and we felt that stakeholders, so people that actually own cryptocurrency should be able to exert a form of influence over over a project, or over a currency.
And that’s actually the fundamental idea and the fundamental difference between Decred and Bitcoin.
So Bitcoin is, the miners essentially make the decisions right, cos they’re the ones that mine blocks and therefore it either goes on or it doesn’t go on onto the blockchain.
And at Decred we wanted the stakeholders to claw back some of that power so that they also had a voice.

N: Interesting, and that’s kind of what in Bitcoin, creates forks am I correct?

M: Correct, so one of the things that Decred is, is it’s fork resistant, so it is non-trivial to fork Decred. Where is fork in Bitcoin is actually not as hard, comparatively speaking.

N: Cool, so Decred’s unforkable, that’s really really interesting.

M: So (inaudible ) unforkable, it is code and obviously things can be written to change things but it is fork resistant, is the word we like to use

N: Fork resistant, ok cool interesting.

M: It’s kind of like your watch that you could drop in the pool and it won’t die immediately right, it’s water resistant. If you let it sink in the Mariana Trench it will get water in there.

N: Ok that makes a lot of sense.
If we’re talking about the consensus mechanism or even before we get into that, we’re talking about the proof of work vs proof of stake, it’s been a huge argument with the crypto community for a very long time.
We’re seeing some major differences and major effects with the coming ethereum fork where their changing to a different model, or at least altering their current model.
The thing I like the most about Decred is you work with both, but before we get into that.

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N: What’s your whole position on proof of work vs proof of stake, do you think it’s one or the other is it good, or is it one or the other is bad or do you think it’s just dependent upon the project and the goal and the vision of that?

M: So I think the latter answer is the more correct answer, proof of work solved a real problem, I guess is what people would call the Nakamoto consensus, with that you basically have a giant wall clock where you know the state of a machine and you give it time, and everybody know the same stakes distributed, it’s pretty amazingly clever.
So proof of work does one thing really well, proof of stake does a different thing and I think that they complementary not necessarily the right answer for everything.
So I think that proof of work has some weaknesses and one of them I think is what we saw when Bitcoin cash came into existence.
So you had all these ultimate projects and now they have forked yet again, and this is going to continue on.
And back in the day when we actually launched BTCD one of the criticisms we received was ‘what if you cause a hard fork’ you know it’s pretty laughable right now but back then it was a big deal apparently.
So proof of work is forkable by design, proof of stake has nothing at stake, you know problem inherently built into it, so it depends on your project or what your goals are if that works for you.

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N: When you say ‘proof of stake has nothing at stake’ problem going for it, can you just expand on that for the audience?

M: Yeah so the nothing at stake is, Is that if a decision needs to be made it doesn’t really matter what you decide because as a stakeholder everything should, kind of works out for you regardless.
So you can make decisions and you can support both sides of an argument, and therefore participate in both ends, for all intensive purposes it’s a different type of fork.

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N: Ok cool that makes sense. And Decred has an interesting model where you work with both proof of work and proof of stake. How is that devised and is that the first time that we’ve seen this happen? or is it something that you think is going to become more common in the future?

M: So it comes from the proof of activity paper that Charlie Lee and some other folks wrote back in the day, but the hybridization, what it buys you it keep basically both ends honest.
So the proof of work guys, if they start misbehaving right, so miners start misbehaving the proof of state guys can hit them over the head and say ‘you’re being a bad miner we’re going to strip you of your reward.
So that creates tension in the system and this is where some of the religious debate ensues right, so is that healthy or not? well I think it’s healthy because I want my network to be healthy.
So for example if a miner is only mining empty blocks, that is a low grade deniable service attack right, so even though the blocks are technically correct it is unhelpful for the network that payments are going to.
And so by having this proof of stake component on top of that, it means that the proof-of-stake guys can verify the work of the proof of work guys you know and if enough of them agree that the work is correct, we can move forward.
So in the way that it is actually implemented this is where we’re going to get a little bit more technical, but every block has 5 votes, and those 5 votes are determined by the solution of the block, and then we know, the entire network knows who supposed to vote on that block.
If enough votes make it through then the chain moves forward, if not enough chain votes blocks make it through then that block actually gets discarded, and so then the chain does not move forward for that miner.
Does that make sense? But we have leveraged that to actually make tough decisions as well, this is where we can actually make modifications in consensus.
So we can say if we want to have a bigger block for example, if enough votes accumulate over time saying yes we would like to see that change, then the code so that code is actually been written and it is dormant, it already exists.
So now at that point if enough votes have made it through then literally the entire blockchain will fork into the new consensus.
And then the the one that was not voted in dies off pretty quickly, that’s where the fork resistance actually is very important right, because a people would not agree and they would try to continue on on their own block then now you end up with two chains instead of one chain in the decision.
Does that make sense?

N: Ok interesting yeah it does, that’s cool.
It’s a lot to digest as someone who’s not super technical, but I do understand the basics of that and I’m going to listen to it actually a few times after this interview.

M: Yeah so this is actually one of the issues that we have you know from a more marketing type prospective, Decred is pretty subtle right, there’s a lot of things that you’ve gotta understand before the light comes on it’s a bit hard to explain.

N: Yeah I get it, I mean I think you’ve done a good, as more of the person on the marketing side of things in crypto I think you’ve done a really good job on it.
I watched multiple videos on it, read multiple articles on it and it wasn’t hard for me to understand what was going on, but in any project or any development when it starts to get more into the technical things, I just have to read it a few times before I’m like ok that makes sense.

M: Oh yeah absolutely, and none of this stuff is trivial right there’s obviously a lot of thinking and a lot of code, and a lot of time went into even designing this stuff right, so I get it and I understand that you need to repeat some of these things a couple of times and you know and put them in a different terms.

N: Yeah and it’s cool, that’s what I enjoy about this space, I like I love the fact that you can come on here and you have a whole different knowledge set than I have, and I get to learn from you. That’s actually the reason that I started this podcast and it’s fun so far.
Moving into the next set of things. The halving structures very different, so Bitcoins halving structure every four years, block awards been cut by 50%.

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N: What is Decreds halving structure, how is it different from what’s been done with Bitcoin or Litecoin and why did you guys build it that way?

M: So actually even though it looks very very different on the surface it is actually the result, identical.
So we don’t halve and I’m going to get these numbers wrong cos I just don’t remember things but I think it’s every 28 days or so the block reward goes down by one hundred and one over a hundred, so 1%.
But if you block that out over time the curve is actually nearly identical to the one of Bitcoin, does that make sense? So even though the Bitcoin one is, it’s a block and stays for a very long time and then you know the next block shows up, but if you actually blocks year by year on average it looks virtually the same.
So the reason we did that is we felt that the halving was a little bit too abrupt, and we’ve seen several times now you know the market reacts in strange ways to it.
So we felt that the curve was good, but the way Bitcoin was doing it was suboptimal. And that’s why we chose the numbers a little bit differently and the algorithm molded differently with ultimately the same outcome.

N: Does this play into the longevity of Decred that we were talking about the beginning?

M: A little bit, so yes no not a little bit, yes it really does. So by having a dampened algorithm the shock to the system is smaller.
And I think people like the plan, like smaller shocks. This is opinion by the way, this is not factual what I think is accurate.
So I think that it helps people plan a little bit better, specifically miners right, so if you spend a whole bunch of money on miners then you may have a little bit more residual value. Does it make sense?
I think it’s just a little bit less abrupt, that was one of the reasons we wanted to get there. So from a longevity prospective, so it’s also you know way into the future where the block awards (inaudible) completely end.
So you know some of that reward just has to come from fees, and that’s how a Bitcoin essentially works right.
So the thing with Decred is. we were thinking about maybe slicing up some of those fees in different ways, but this is a problem that is going to exist in the future and we have to solve it, but it is not an immediate problem that needs to be solved.
So we have actually started talking about it, so how we going to, what is the end of mining going to mean for us.

N: Interesting.

M: So we’re still working on that, that is a little bit fluid. But right now from a curve perspective we’re pretty identical to Bitcoin but we do it just much slower.

N: I mean that kind of leads me into my next question when I think what you’re saying when you said ‘what does the end of mining look like’ or what does it mean.
I think you’re kind of asking a similar question of what’s going to happen with Bitcoin or Decred or any of these projects when the reward structure for miners mainly become transaction fees is that kind of a similar question or are we on two different pages here.

M: Yeah that is a fair question though, although it is a question for what 100 years from now, it is one that needs to be answered.
But I do think that the design was pretty clear on keeping relatively small block sizes, and the reason for that was that as you get more transactions you’re going to be able to extract more transaction fees and therefore perpetuate the system.
That was the original design right, but there is going to be a time where you have to figure this out right so, is that going to be the final answer.
Or for Bitcoin for all intensive purposes that is the final answer right.
Because it was big banged into existence and you know there’s really no change mechanism, where as in Decred we can actually bounce on that question and answer it later, that is what the governance in this proof of stake proof of work hybridization gives us, so even though this is a hard problem we can opt to solve it later.

N: Ok I just put two and two together, that totally makes sense. Interesting.
So Decred is very prepared for the possibility of immediate changes, so if a change occurs in the ecosystem system, of all of cryptocurrency or the whole blockchain ecosystem that would affect something like Bitcoin or another coin on the market, It may not have as high of a an effect on Decred or you have the capacity to make a quick right turn or a quick left turn if it’s necessary.

M: Correct, and that is, let me expand a little bit on that so while Bitcoin is obviously incredibly secure, there is a possibility that some cryptographic primitive breaks at some point in time.
And they do not have a good answer to solve that, because now all of a sudden the miners may not agree with what the software guys want to do, and now what?
There is no way of resolving that and I think you saw that a little bit with Monero right, when Monaro decided to become asic resistant, there were 14 Monero’s the next day because a bunch of stuff had forked off.
And I don’t think that is healthy for the ecosystem to have all of this forking and all of this activity.
For example one of the siding algorithms breaks, whatever that means in technical terms, but we could react very quickly and make a proposal for the stakeholders to vote on and make that change, and if enough people agree to it then it’s going to happen. And there’s no backsies because once you vote you vote and it’s recorded on the blockchain so at the end of the voting it’s the decision is made.

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N: What does it mean when you say an algorithm breaks? so for someone who, l don’t write code, I’d love to it’s just not something that I have, a skill that I’ve picked up. What would that look like, what would that even mean? Does that just mean like the block stop or something?

M: That could mean that, so maybe that was not the right wording to use but what has proven what has happened always in the history of computer science, is that cryptographic algorithms over time become less effective because you have more computing power and they become more attackable as people spend more time analysing the weaknesses.
So I think that a reasonably recent famous example was the MD5 hashing algorithm, so MD5 at this point has been completely broken and you can actually on a relatively weak personal computer create a hash collision, and hash collisions would be hell on earth for Bitcoin, that would be an existential threat to the system.
They have some additional things to try to mitigate even if there is a hash collision, I know I’m going to give you too many of the details but cryptographic primitives become weakened over time, that is a fact.
And they might get to a point where they have deprecated, and at one point they’re considered completely broken and therefore have to be replaced.
And again I am not predicting that it’s going to happen to Bitcoin, but I do know for a fact that all crypto primitives overtime have weakened and some of them have completely broken. It’s not inconceivable that it’s going to happen in the future.

N: Very interesting, cool thank you for sharing that that’s something that I had and still have a lot to learn about.

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N: So moving into the funding model for Decred this is the main part of the conversation that I really want to focus on for the rest of our talk man, I think that this is really really interesting can you explain to the audience the funding model Decred how is Decred funded and how are you able to keep up funding?

M: Ok so first up let’s talk a little bit more about block rewards, so in Decred the block award is actually broken up into three pieces, 60% of the block award goes to the miners because they actually have real bills, you know they have to spend real electricity so it’s important to give them the lion’s share because they’re the ones also doing most of the work, so then you have the proof of stake components so those that are stakeholders.
So when you vote you actually receive a portion of that block award as well, there’s 5 votes per block, so once a miner blocks a block the miner gets 60% and then the five voters get 30%.
So the remaining 10% goes to the treasury, and that treasury is the Decred treasury that pays for the developments and what happens next in Decred, does that make sense?

N: It does, it does. And all of that development is voted on by the community correct?

M: Yes that has actually commenced, we have an additional system called (inaudible) Actually I was the main author of that, that was one of my babies for last year.
And what that does is that’s a proposal mechanism where people from the community can show up and say ‘Hey I will do this work for this amount of money will you fund me?’ and then if the answer is yes the funding can commence and it comes out of this treasury, and if it’s voted down then obviously it doesn’t move forward.

N: Interesting. So is this like a system where a developer might come in and they might say ‘Hey we could make this upgrade’ or ‘We could make this change or this altercation’ and then they put it into a voting system and the whole community is able to vote or just the people who are stakeholding or how does that work?

M: So it’s gotta be the stakeholders although there is a big difference though, so these proposals, every stakeholder can vote on.
And when you only have, you know if you look at the blockchain there’s only room for 5 votes right, that would not be enough to vote on these things.
So there’s a component that we do on chain which is consensus and protocol changes, and then there’s pure proposals where basically debate on how to spend money, and those are done off chain but done by you know we leverage the ticketing system that we have which is the ones that allow you to vote, so but this is done off chain and then it’s anchored into the chain.

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N: interesting ok cool, why did you guys choose this model like what was the reasoning behind it?

M: Actually one of the other things that we disliked about Bitcoin that we thought was weak is that if you back in the day wanted to be a Bitcoin developer you kinda had to do it on your own dime.
And counterintuitively by having only volunteers do this work you actually ultimately will become centralised.
So at some point blockstream swooped in and they hired most of the Bitcoin developers right, and that will lead you know, if you’re reporting to the man you know, you’re going to have some sort of common agenda, and you know blockchain tried very hard for that not to be the case but ultimately it’s a business right.
And if you’re going to work for somebody you’re probably going to take on some of their agendas.
Again that is just invariably so. So we felt that having a treasury which allows development groups and people to independently be paid for work, that that actually would maximize you know brain share and decivilization of the development team which we think is very important.

N: Interesting very interesting. I mean the thing that I like about the funding model the most is, it shows that people don’t need to run ICO’s right, I think that 90% + of ICO’s, I won’t call them scams because I think that scams is overused in the space, but we could say ‘money grabs’ a lot of them are money grabs, a lot of them are attempts at having mittable ideas that probably don’t need to be tokenized but were tokenized anyway.
And they raised lots and lots of money, and like you said in the very beginning of the podcast here, it’s probably one of the main reasons that we’ve been in this bear market for over a year and probably the main reason why we’re like you said, I would agree not close to the end of it. That being said this brings about a whole new possibility for continuous fundraising, not just for raising a lot of money in the very beginning and hoping you can build a product that builds a revenue stream that will sustain you as a company, and hopefully create a profit in the future as well as change in the ecosystem.
But this in itself has continuous rewards for the whole ecosystem throughout the whole time of it working, you got any thoughts or opinions on that?

M: Well yeah again we want to be self funded right. So we don’t want to have external money because bringing in a VC means again that you’re going to have to adapt to somebody’s agenda. VC’s have agendas, they want to obviously make money so you have to do certain things.
And again that may not be in the best interest of the network, it’s good for you right, or for a number of people but not for the network, not for the overall health of the network. So we very much did not want to have any external meddling from big money groups, that was very important to us.
So we were self-funded until we bootstrapped and then once we bootstrapped we’ve been basically, all development everything Decred is being paid for in Decred by this treasury. And that’s the way we plan to continue to do it forward.

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N: And is development going to be affected at all when the block awards get smaller and smaller, because if you’re getting 10% of the block award but the block award gets smaller and smaller over time, say in 10 20 30 years it gets significantly smaller and the price of developers or all the cost of development goes up, do you see a problem there? that’s the one question I was conflicted on when I was doing research on Decred.

M: So there’s a couple of answers here, so the way I actually look at it is Decred is deflationary right, so even though it is inflating right now pretty quickly, that is going to stop and there’s only going to be 21 million of them.
So in theory that means the price of Decred is going to go up, those are the forces at work. So I therefore expect that the price of Decred is going to continue to go up long-term, you know price swings aside right, but overall speaking it is going to continue to crawl up, probably keep up with inflation and therefore it will not be an issue.
That is my actual, you know my raw opinion on that. I do think that funding will be able to continue to go on even though as the block reward goes down.
I also think that since we have been so frugal, that if we continue to be frugal we’re also going to basically sit on this pile of Decred.
So right now we only use a very small portion every month of what we actually are receiving, we are sitting over 500,000 Decred and that numbers only been going up instead of going down.

N: Nice, I like that.

M: So at this point actually, at the current price point we can do this indefinitely, we can literally continue to roll this fall forward till the end of time.

N: Beautiful man, beautiful.
Well Decred’s been a project like I said man, it’s been on my radar, it’s been on my attention for a while. I saw you guys got featured in Forbes recently, congratulations on that! Yeah Lesley’s a good friend and I read that as soon as it came out and it was pretty exciting.
I mean what do you think is going to happen over the next year or two in crypto? let’s just end it with some final thoughts on where we think the whole atmosphere is headed.

M: So I think that actually 2019 is going to be a great year for crypto, so there’s going to be some ugly things going to happen there’s going to be more folding, there’s going to be more layoffs.
But I think overall 2019 is going to be a very positive crypto, there’s a lot of development happening in many projects, some of the stuff is very very exciting.
And I think we’re finally going to start seeing some of the ideas come to fruition that were seeded 2/3/4 years ago.
So on the Decred front I’m actually actively now working on on the DAE so there’s currently still one missing piece if you will in Decred, and that is we want to have auto payments.
So once a proposal actually voted in, then the treasury needs to disperse that money automatically without a single human being involved in that, and that is currently the piece of code I’m working on, so that we can you know remove humans out of the equation.

N: Wow so kind of just run on its own completely!

M: That is the idea, you know crawl, walk, run right, and we are very cautious.
And because we have, again change mechanism, people keep coming back to it. Because of our governance system we are going to basically be able to iterate, so we’re going to do the first version that is still going to have some guardrails, you know we’re going to increasingly remove the guard rails as time goes on, so we’ll start off with some pretty strong guardrails to make sure the you know that we don’t get robbed, from there we will start removing those guardrails as we iterate the system.
And by having the change mechanism we’re going to be able to roll those in over time.

N: I love it man, I love it. Let’s just end with a couple of final thoughts and also can you share with people where they can learn more about Decred

M: Well the best place is probably that’s where, we have actually written a bunch of documentation and we have some folks that are very theoretical and they really enjoy talking about the governance system to a point that it’s pretty crazy.
So if you like reading on that stuff is a good place to start.
And from there there’s a bunch of links that will go to different areas, there’s wikis, there’s unending amounts of documentation, our code is also very well documented so if you’re more of a coder, more of a hacker there is probably no better piece of codes to learn about blockchain than the Decred (inaudible) codes.
And Slack we’re on that, we have discord, all that good stuff.

N: Awesome, and if I wanted to follow you if I didn’t follow you already, where can I follow you on Twitter?

M: I am Marco underscore Peerboom so @ underscore peerboom at Twitter. Although I do tend to tweet a lot about food.

N: As long as it’s good food I’ve got no problem with that.

M: Well I really enjoy cooking and it turns out folks on the internet like to see good cooking and so I really enjoy showing that to people, when I’m screwing around bored, when I’m trying something new, and I like do some pretty elaborate things when I cook so I mix it up a little bit.

N: Awesome well thank you so much for joining Marco, I really appreciate it man. I hope that we get to hang out at some conferences or at least some events this year, and yeah I appreciate your perspective on all of this, I really really appreciate you teaching me even more about Decred than I was learning via my own readings and stuff like that, and answering some probably pretty basic questions for you. So I really appreciate that man.

M: Oh no, I really appreciate you having me on your show.
And actually one last thing though, so I am going to go to TABCONF 2019 in Atlanta Georgia, so if folks want to actually learn more about Decred I’m going to do a Decred 101 presentation over there, if you want to check it out come see me, come talk to me and I can answer all of your questions.

N: Awesome guys you heard it here first TABCONF, Decred will be there my man Marco will be there that’s TAB conference. And again Marco thank you so much for coming on.
Guys this is another episode of the Evolvement podcast where we talk about Bitcoin, cryptocurrency and the future of our financial systems. We will catch you next time, peace.

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