This is a transcript of the Podcast – Build the Crypto Life with Peter McCormack – You can listen the audio here
N: What is going on everybody, what is going on. As always it’s your boy Nye and today I am here with Peter McCormack on the next episode of Evolvement the podcast where we talk about Bitcoin, cryptocurrency and the future of our financial system. Peters my man, he’s a really good guy, we first met – Where did we first meet Peter?
P: Consensus last year, was it June?
N: That’s right, that’s right it was May / June timeframe something like that, met for consensus, we had dinner with a whole group of people and Peters like you’re the guy with the mask right? and yeah he is a really good guy. We kicked it off right away, I’ve been listening to his podcasts since even before we met’ and welcome to the show Peter.
P: Hey man, yeah we’ve hung out a few times right, we’ve hung out in LA with my kid’s and we hung out in Vegas, met a few times. Yeah it’s been great to get to know you, I think you are very different from what everyone sees on Twitter, I don’t I don’t think people get to see the real you until they meet you, like I say you’re one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met, I always enjoy spending time with you and I’ve seen them, I’ve seen some people take some pot shots at you on Twitter and and I suggest they meet you and get to know you because I think you’re a solid guy. I miss the mask though
N: A lot of people miss the mask man! That’s a compliment thank you so much for that, that means a lot, I appreciate it. But I mean even getting into it a little bit here Peter is actually the main reason, actually one of the main Inspirations I should say, that I started this podcast. I saw Peter doing really, really well with it and I always wanted to start a little podcast in the space.
But I didn’t know what the topic was going to be and anything like that, man I’ve just been watching your journey I mean you’ve had your podcast a little over a year now and I’ve been watching your journey, and it’s super inspiring man, I love what you’ve created! I think you’ve created an excellent show with 1, fantastic guests, but also fantastic information and you are just killing it dude so congratulations on that.
P: Yeah thank you, there was no real plan it just kind of happened right, this weird long journey. But I think most people in crypto have weird Journeys, just this is just some weird journey that’s got me to where I am, and now I’m here talking to you and you’re making your podcast which is cool.
I could do without the competition, but seeing that it’s you.
N: Don’t worry dude, I don’t think that I’m going to be much competition for you, you’re already killing it so I wouldn’t worry too much about that.
03:02 | 1:00:07
N: Let’s just get started into it man, like when did you get started started in crypto? what’s that story for you, what were you doing before and what was that first introduction into Bitcoin and all of this whole crazy mess we’re all in?
P: Just a weird set of circumstances, none of it planned, none of it you know I was prepared for. I’ve told this story a few times, I mean I discovered Bitcoin back in 2013.
I was trading CFDs on Plus500, the prices were going crazy. You could go to bed and wake up and Id made 4000 pound, then I could go to bed and see that I’d been stopped out because there’d been a flash crash and you know, up and down, a bit crazy but it was all about money for me.
I didn’t really look into Bitcoin, licked my wounds after I’ve lost quite a bit and said alright see you later that was fun. But kind of kept an eye on Bitcoin in the background I just kind of watched the price, I saw that it had drop down $200 and then it started to grow again and then, you know dude we’ve met a few times you know about my Mum, my Mum got sick we wanted to get her treatment the only way to buy that treatment was to have Bitcoin.
So yeah, said to my Dad look we’re going to have to buy some Bitcoin and do a couple of slightly out of the box things to get this, so I went on Google I searched for Bitcoin, how to buy it. Went on to coinbase and yeah we bought a Bitcoin, it was about $700 at the time so I think we needed was about $400 so after I’d made the purchase, sadly Mum passed away but you know I was in Ireland at my Dad’s, there’s not much to do and I transferred the leftover Bitcoin back to coinbase and then I was like ‘oh what’s this Ethereum thing I’ve never heard of it, so I just kind of went on Google, read about it you know at the time sold it and thought ok this sounds kind of interesting.
I was out of work as well because I’d had an advertising agency in London that was quite successful for a period of time.
But I got married and then separated very quickly from my partner, it’s a really crap story I’ve told it before, I won’t bother with it now.
But I did end up going to work properly for about a year or so, the agency started to suffer and folded. So all a blessing in disguise but I was out of work, I just thought you know what, let’s put some money into this, let’s buy some Bitcoin and see what happens.
Buy some Ethereum, I think it was like $9 I think I bought some Bitcoin, like 5 Bitcoin, and then I had a couple of hundred dollars left over so I put that all in to Ethereum, I can’t remember maybe it was like 80 Ethereum or something. And then a few days later I put some more in, and I kept topping up and I eventually put like $23,000, no 23,000 Pounds $32,000.
And then I just started buying everything, Dash and Monero and just everything, and then you know chain of events from that point to now having a Blog, and a website you know getting to spend some decent time with very intelligent people I really started appreciating what Bitcoin and crypto is.
06:02 | 1:00:07
N: Nice, that’s awesome, that’s awesome.
And how did the podcast start?, I mean you have over, I think it’s over 50 episodes right now. All with very high quality people, all very high quality content and from what I observe, which is one of the reasons that I was actually inspired to start my own podcast, is it seems like you’re learning through the podcast right. It seems like you come to these people with questions that obviously nobody is an export in these kinds of things yet, but you come to these people with questions about things that you can expand your knowledge on. Which is also what I hope to do with this podcast, is hopefully learn a lot of stuff. So is that the thing that inspired the podcast to start or what’s the reason that you were like ‘let’s do a podcast’?
P: God it’s really hard to say exactly why, because I can’t fully remember. But all I know was like the trading I didn’t love, I tried to learn trading, I tried to learn about TA and I’ve got to say it just didn’t thrill me, I didn’t get into it. I did it but I wasn’t enjoying it, but what I was enjoying was writing about it.
When Bitcoin started to go up I had all of my friends come to me and they’re saying ‘Pete how did you how do you get into the Bitcoin’ so I replied to them and then I did it a few times and I thought this is a pain so I ended up writing this email template which was ‘what is Bitcoin, why it’s important, what are cryptocurrencies, what are assets, why you should care about them, why you should care about security, this is how you buy.
You know it was like a beginners guide, If it was a word document it would have probably been about 4 sides.
So what I did was I would just email that to people, just to save myself a bunch of time.
And then I started this Facebook group for my friends, like 100 people were in it and I would just share my knowledge, what I was buying etc.
And then I went out to LA to stay with my friend Justin and he was like, he was a content guy an SEO. And he was like ‘dude this content is great, why don’t you just create a website out of it’ And I was like ok yeah let’s do that, so we just kind of just brainstormed ideas, tried to come up with a name, came up with ‘What Bitcoin Did’ and then started blogging about it.
And I really enjoyed making the content, the thing about the content is it only has so much reach and there’s a lot I don’t understand you know, there are some, you know! there are some really smart people involved in Bitcoin and crypto, you know people like Nick Carter, his writing is just out of this world.
But I know I don’t fully understand it and I find some of these concepts really hard, so I wanted to kind of ask people about that to learn, also knowing there’s going to be a bunch of people like me who also don’t know the answers to these basic questions, and also I think what it also comes back to is, back when I was in web world, when I used to have my web agency, I was a planner and a strategist. And a lot of my work was UX, so in UX what you’re trying to do is make everything as simple for people to use and understand, and I almost feel like my podcast is that. It’s kind of like crypto UX.
It’s helping people understand the basics the things they don’t fully understand like tomorrow my interview with Brian Bishop comes out, who’s a Bitcoin core developer, and I’m just asking him like how does consensus work? how do you dev this?
Because I think there are people like me who want to know, so yeah I guess it’s just, it is about me learning. Sometimes I think I’ve got the answers when I’ve asked them but I still think that either needed explaining or other people might need it explained so yeah I guess that’s what it is yeah. Nailed it.
N: I mean I think that’s the cool thing right, is there is a lot of people in the space, even including myself when I first started, that came in and just wanted to make a lot of money off of trading. And we’re starting to see now that probably 90% or more of those people are not built to be traders, you know they’re not built to sit on the computer and day trade, a lot of them aren’t even built to sit on the computer and swing trade.
A lot of people lost a lot of money over the last couple of months, but I think what you’re touching on there in the very beginning of that statement which is key is, there’s an opportunity to create content, there’s an opportunity to build things in the space beyond trading, and I mean personally I’d argue that what you doing with the podcast is way more valuable, and yeah I think it’s going to make you, if we want to talk in monetary value, I think it’s going to make you a lot more money in the long term then trading ever will.
But really what matters is it brings a lot of value to a lot of people and I dig it.
P: Yeah it’s funny my very first interview was with Luke Martin, you know Venture Coinist, you’ve met him right.
N: Yeah of course good guy.
P: Yeah a really good guy, and something stuck with me in that first interview when he said ‘the majority of people shouldn’t be trading, they should just invest’
You know buy a little bit and sit on it for 3/5/10 years’ and I still stand by that actually, that’s what most people should do, they should probably if they’re going to get involved, buy some Bitcoin put it away for ten years.
And you know, cause probably the success of Bitcoin is probably binary, it’s either going to become this global digital gold or it’s not. And if it does if you’ve got a little bit yeah even point one of a Bitcoin or half a Bitcoin or 1 Bitcoin, that in 10-15 20 years might materially change your life.
What I’m finding though is that, getting beyond the money, like having made it and lost it and realising it doesn’t really matter that much. I’m kind of going further and further down the Bitcoin rabbit hole and I realise how important Bitcoin really is, like it really is.
If it can become this Global decentralized money, like my last interview that came out was with Alex Gladstein of the Human Rights foundation, Bitcoin isn’t really for people like you and me Nye, like right now.
It can be in the future but it really does have a use case and a purpose for people living in under authoritarian regimes which is 4 billion people, or it really does serve a purpose for people living under hyperinflation or in countries where there’s bad fiscal policy like an India, where they routinely steal money from people.
So I think the the goal here is bigger, I think the goal here is to educate people and grow Bitcoin, and if my podcast can do that you know great, If I’ve made and lost money on the way great.
I guess I care more about a sustainable regular income than being rich because rich, yeah you’ve had your trials and tribulations in life rich or poor it doesn’t really make a difference right.
N: Agreed man, agreed. I mean I always say that the financial goal isn’t to be extremely, extremely wealthy the financially goal is literally just to have more money coming in then you have going out, while increasing way of life like your lifestyle along the way, lifestyle for yourself, lifestyle for your family and all that stuff, so i’m 100% in agreeance there man.
P: Yeah well I would say the time I was wealthiest in my life was probably the time I was most miserable as well funnily enough. And it wasn’t that they were aligned, it just prove to me that it doesn’t matter how much money you’ve got if things in your life aren’t right, like if your relationships are poor, or your going to bed at night feeling crap, like I was a drug addict at one point and I had very bad anxiety.
I used to have these things called an SVT, it’s like the worst panic attack where your heart rate goes up to 200 beats a minute. I remember this one time I was on the tube in London and this panic attack hit me, it’s just like a truck in between stations, I kind of fell off, kind of fell out of the carriage at Holborn station. I had to grab a guard and say look I think I’m having a heart attack. I kind of knew it was another one of these SVT’s but they are similar to a heart attack.
He ends up calling up an ambulance, I’m sat on the platform, the paramedics come down. This is rush hour by the way, you’re talking a busy platform and I’m there laying on the floor with my shirt off, like as degrading an experience as possible, being given an ECG to see if I’m being given a heart attack. With people just staring at me and it was like the worst time in my life.
You know I was financially in a great position, you know I had a nice car, nice things but I went home from that and I just felt crap.
So you know, money can open opportunities and give you a freedom and if you’ve got a lot of it yes you can do some fun things, but if people are going after money thinking it’s going to make them happy, it just doesn’t do it, it just doesn’t do it at all.
N: I agree man, I agree. I mean I think this is an interesting conversation right here you know, I think that a lot of people have that perception you know, I think money’s an interesting tool that can be utilised to maybe make you a little bit more comfortable from time to time, I’m kind of experiencing that right now, I mean I’m in a place right now where my business is doing very well, Im making more money than I’ve ever made in my entire life. I’m not crazy rich by any means like I can’t just go buy a house or go buy a Ferrari or anything near that, even close.
But I do have the capacity to sustain myself financially, but I’m not even going to lie to you man, every single day I wake up and I still feel immense amounts of pressure, I still deal with like depression and other heavy emotions on a monthly basis and I never really thought it was gonna solve it, I thought i’d feel that maybe a little bit more comfortable.
But I think that that’s a whole nother conversation, that has to do with the fact that there’s a separation between getting your financial situation right and getting yourself right, getting your mind, getting your body, getting your spirit right.
P: Well it’s funny, so like you know that Tweet storm I put out last week about losing the money, and I’ll come to why I did that in a moment. But it’s funny, I put it out there and I’ve had a whole bunch of people get in touch with me, I must have had like maybe 300 DM’s since I’ve put that out there.
All different things, but I’ve had a bunch of people come to me and they were like ‘look if you’re ok, if you need someone to talk to, you know let me know’.
And I’m like no no no don’t worry I’m fine, there’s absolutely no problem here at all.
And also conversely I’ve had some people troll me on it going you’re an idiot, you know you’re greedy, you know. And again you know when someone is trolling you, it’s more about them than actually you, it’s them trying to for whatever reason, that they need to troll someone.
The funny thing was yes in hindsight, I wish I’d cashed that money in and you know had that money in the bank, but not having it, it’s no big deal because I have a sustainable life with the podcast right, it’s profitable now after a year of hard work it’s profitable.
So like every month I can afford what I need for me and my children, so the money doesn’t bother me because I’ve lost everything twice now and I know the money’s not going to make a big difference to my life and to how I feel everyday.
Like I get up and I take my kids to school, I can go to the gym, I can go and do the shopping or we go to the cinema, I can still live the same life but Im mentally in some ways in a better place. And you know what, it if you’ve made money and you know the formula you can do it again.
I mean I’m pretty sure if I really wanted to, I could make good money again. Maybe not that much but I won’t be doing it just to make money because I know that’s not going to make my life better.
17:49 | 1:00:07
N: 100%, 100%. Let’s just get into it, Can you reshare the story? I mean you don’t have to share every little detail like you did in thread, but for someone who’s listening right now who didn’t read your thread or who may have missed it on Twitter, can you give them like a quick summary and then we’ll just kind of touch on that a little bit because it’s super interesting man, I mean I think you’re touching on what a lot of people experienced and you’re touching on a lot of human psychology at work, so I want to dive into that a little bit.
P: Alright Cool, well the short version is I traded $32,000 up to 1.2 million, that’s if I look at my old spreadsheet, that’s where it was. I think it actually in the grand scheme of things a bit more because I didn’t account for some of the mining costs.
But let’s just say 1.2 million and it’s gradually kind of over the bear market dwindled down. And like I’m not broke, but after taxes and closing down the mining which I’m probably going to have to do. You know it’s as good as saying I’ve lost the lot right, and that’s for a number of reasons.
You know I didn’t cash out, I got greedy, you know I had this goal of hitting 5 million for a specific reason. Such a dumb reason, I wanted to buy my local football club!
But I had this goal and mainly the biggest cost was the mining, I took out mining contracts on fixed rates, electricity, power and then the mining started to lose money and I put all of the money into the equipment. I mean the equipment itself was like $250,000/$300,000.
So like its all kind of gone, and again I’m fine with it. I’m enjoying the podcast and I’m making money.
But what was happening, I keep seeing these messages on Twitter, all these things like ‘when the next bull run comes I’m going to do this’. Everyone’s waiting for the next bull run, and don’t get me wrong I want Bitcoin to grow in price, I want it to increase of course I want to be financially in a better place, but I don’t rely on it.
But I’m noticing people are, and also luck and timing comes into play. I came into it December 16 and I’m ok.
But there’s going to be people who’ve come in like August or November and they’re going to be seriously underwater which I’m not, they’re going to be seriously underwater.
And I was just thinking right ,we need to start talking about this for two reasons right. Firstly you can’t rely on a bull run for your life, it might come it might not come. But you can’t rely on it. Secondly if it does come, you need to be prepared for it, not make stupid mistakes I have. Actually and there’s a third reason, and I think people need to get their head around this, is that if you’re relying on a bull run to make money, a lot of these assets, not necessarily Bitcoin but a lot of these assets, especially some of these shitcoins. You are relying on other people to come with less knowledge, to buy from you, to dump your bags on. And for them to go through that same kind of thing that you’ve been through, so you just need to be, I don’t know, you need to be cool with that.
I’m not sure I’m cool with that anymore right, like if I’d had that 1 million, is that like 1000 people have lost $1,000 to me or something, and you know that money that they can’t afford to lose. And I’m not sure I’m personally cool with that.
And some people say that’s all markets, and look I get that but I think that’s, I don’t know. I’m not entirely cool with it.
But what is interesting Nye that’s come out of this out of all those DM’s is the amount of people in the same situation, like so many people and the stories right, there’s one dude who traded 6 1/2 thousand dollars up to 2.5 million and he’s lost the lot.
One guy already told me I’m not giving you the number but it was 8 figures, so 8 figures is 10 million + He’s got like 300 grand left.
You know plenty of people similar to me said you know 1.2, 1.6, 1.1, 800 thousand and then lots of people also who just kinda may be traded $500 up to $60,000 have said like I could have paid off my mortgage.
So there are so many people who’ve gone through this, that I kind of thought look this needs talking about and I know there’s going to be a bunch of people who are going to come say your ‘well your a ** you shouldn’t invest more… Yeah ok thanks you for the hindsight, but people are human, there is fear, there is greed, there is FOMO and people make some mistakes.
So I just thought, common let’s have a conversation, I’ve been through it, I don’t mind sharing it, let’s put it out there, so I did.
I was amazed by how much it blew up though, like I thought, I thought you know what this is going to get some interest, people are going to want to talk about this.
So I get 8000 likes now, and 3000 retweets or something. I’ve had like various major newspapers and TV stations get in touch wanting to talk about it. Yeah it blew up a lot more than I thought but I’m glad, you know I think it’s something that needed talking about.
N: That’s awesome, that’s awesome.
Yeah man I saw Ran hitting you up, you know cryptomanran, I was like ooohhhh he’s coming for Peter for CNBC so maybe we’ll see something coming up there.
P: Yeah I was surprised about that one because I troll the hell that out of that guy, and I don’t know if he knows I’m taking the, like it’s just my sense of humour or whatever, but yeah I’ll talk to anyone I don’t care, this needs talking about dude.
N: Yeah I 100% agree, I think that’s the biggest thing here is like anyone who says ‘oh you shouldn’t have invested more than you can lose’ or ‘why didn’t you cash out at the top’ I mean looking back now, from watching it go from, I mean in November from around $,5,000 to $6,000 to December around $20,000 back down to, I don’t know, I think it was under $10,000 and then jumped right back up into the $15’s watching that happen, and watching, literally the group mentality that everyone had is mind-blowing to me man, it’s an addiction it’s like a hype phase, I don’t really know the exact word to put on it, I definitely think addiction is one word.
23:44 | 1:00:07
N: I mean we all had this group mentality even back in March or May time frame when consensus was around, there was a huge group mentality that we are going to go back up and we’re going to do it very soon any thoughts on that?
P: Yeah I do right, so when it first crashed right and people were like ‘you know, you should have realised you should have sold some’ Of course, of course I should have sold some. I completely agree I should have.
Ok so I didn’t so let’s get over that, let’s talk about that. There were 3 or 4 times in 2017 when the price crashed like 30% I remember one time, it was funny I’d made all of this money right and I was flying out to LA and I went in the shop beforehand, and I always wanted a Breitling watch right. They were way more than anything I could ever afford, but I had made this money and I thought I’m going to treat myself, I’m going to get myself a Breitling watch, and I did.
And it was 8,000 pound watch, that’s like $11,000 right.
Totally obscene to spend that money on a watch, but I was like I’ve always wanted one, I’m getting one I don’t care.
So I got it, I get on the plane, I land in LA. Do what you do, the first thing you do when you when switch on your phone, is look up blockfolio. And the prices have dropped 30% and it bounced back right, that happened three or four times so, any of those times could have been the trigger for the bear market, it just so happens it was the one in January ok. In hindsight it’s obvious, but if it was obvious at the time of course I would have cashed out.
And even when it did drop, I was like well it’s going to come back cuz look at all this cool stuff that’s out there, look at this Wall street adoption, look at ***********, look at this use cases are growing.
But you know now, like I think a lot of the people that probably did cash out, were probably the ones who experienced two or three of the previous cycles. Like I would never make that mistake again, if there is another bull run and I’ve got some Bitcoin, I’m obviously going to personally take some profits from the table because, I’ve been through that.
But most people they haven’t, most people this is, yeah everyone wants to have a comfortable life, and everyone’s got dreams right and hopes, so I think most people are just will keep kind of dreaming and hoping that it will come back.
And then it hasn’t and that’s been a painful experience.
But also, you know what I’ll add one other thing to it Nye, I think, I think it’s good people go through this, I think people learn from this and appreciate money.
I don’t think we need too much investor protection because with protection you don’t learn, like I’ve learnt a lot from this.
N: I think it’s super important man, I mean to be honest with you this is like the very first time in my life where I’ve like, at first where I’ve had that large of a sum of money. Even though it wasn’t technically and cash, it’s the first time I ever had that large of a sum of money and made it that quickly in my life. It was nowhere near the millions, but it was large enough to make a substantial difference in my life. Like if I cashed out all at once.
Obviously I didn’t, but I was able to do decently well, you know cash some out.
But I think what I’m getting at here is it’s teaching people, and specifically Peter, like people who maybe have not learned this yet, it’s teaching them money management. Specifically I know a lot of people in kind of my age bracket, mid to young younger twenties. This isn’t something that I ever learnt.
And you know it I’ve been Tweeting about this lot a lot recently, specifically because it’s actually true. It’s not something I learnt, I didn’t sit in school and learn how to do taxes, my teacher never taught me how to manage money, how much percentage of my money in income should I put in into my savings account, how much should I put into investments, what is a risky investment versus a safe investment.
My parents never taught me that stuff and I think this is a giant lesson for a large audience of people, and I just hope people are taking it that way because I think a lot of people are just kind of sitting there salty and pissed off right now.
P: Yeah look it is what it is right, you know we can’t change it all.
One of the things I’m always keen on is the side gig, the side hustle.
And I can look at it two ways, if I hadn’t’ done the podcast maybe I would have been a bit more focused on my trades and my money, and like conserve some.
But, in the end I knew I wanted to build something for longevity, so that’s why I did the podcast as well.
You know I can easy look at the monetary loss but I look at the gain.
There’s been so many gains from this, like I’ve gained this podcast which I just love doing dude, I love meeting people, I love going to conferences and talking to all these smart people and educating myself.
I have control over my time, which by the way is way more important than any amount of money. So my kids are on holiday right now for school holidays, my son lives with me full time, I’m here at home with him. You know a lot of parents have got to figure out who is going to do childcare or stuff like that, I don’t have to do that, I get to do the school runs in the morning, I get to do the homework, if they’ve got sports fixtures I get to go to that.
So I’ve got the freedom of time which I think by the way is just the most most valuable thing.
So you know one of the things I’m kind of focused on now, and I’m probably going to try and help people a little bit more is, helping people you know, do side gigs or or set up their own businesses, because that’s probably the biggest benefit of this whole crypto thing, it’s kind of given me this ability for the next, however long, to be my own boss and choose my own destiny with this podcast.
So yeah I look at what I’ve gained, I’ve gained that.
I gained a bunch of friends right, like you’re my friend now, I know if I’m in the same part of the world as you we’re going to go and have dinner, we’re going to hang out and you know we’re going to have a good time. And I know I can call you up, like I know right now Nye, I know if I was like going through a bad time, and I was like none of my friends would understand this I know I could message you and say dude I need to talk to you about something, and I know you’re going to reach back to me and I’m going to chat to you, and you’re going to help me out.
And there’s a bunch of people like that
You know there are people who helped me out with my podcast, like Jameson Lopp’s been hugely supportive.
I’ve sort of gained all these sort of friends and people I know around the world who are just really solid people, so yes lost the money but I think the games are probably more important than the money I’ve lost.
Back to your point on financial education, no I didn’t get a lot from my parents, the education I got was watching my dad work hard and realising that if you want anything in life you’ve gotta work hard.
And he worked very hard to provide for me and my family, and I worked very hard to provide for mine.
You know that’s the only education I got. I laugh though because I’m trying to teach my kids about financial responsibility, I’m probably failing at it, but you know I don’t think many of us really do understand how money really works.
N: No I don’t think I understand even little bits of it, which is actually kind of what I’ve been doing over the last month. And I’ve just been sitting here watching YouTube videos after YouTube video, trying to learn about our financial systems. Also one of the main reason I actually started the podcast is because I want to have really smart people on who know about our systems, and know about how the financial system works. And yeah I just want to learn more about it, I think that’s really interesting, I think it’s one of the areas of our world that’s particularly freally ucked up, and it would be really cool to make some sort of a difference while I’m still here on this planet.
P: Hey listen, look dude I remember when I met you at Consensus. You were telling me, like your job, didn’t you have like a factory job?
N: Yeah I used to work in kitchen’s man, I used to do a lot of shit in kitchen’s and a little bit of automotive work and stuff.
P: So without crypto you could still be in same small town, doing that stuff, doing whatever job it was you were doing, living that same standard of life.
You’re now in Bali right, for fuck sake you’re in Bali, you know living the dream, you’re going around the world, your meeting people, you’re like wow.
I mean how amazing is that? you can’t, like if you had a choice of having the money but going back to that old life, or not having the money and having the new life what are you going to choose?
N: This every single second of the day not a question.
P: There you go, because you own your time, you get to choose to do what you want and you’re in Bali dude.
N: Yeah man, there’s really I mean I might wake up, I might have a couple of bad days here and there but there’s really nothing I should be complaining about, your 100% right about that.
But I want to touch back on the final point that you made when you were sharing your story about selling Alt coins to other people, more or less dumping on them, it’s not really the term that you used but it would probably correlate to something similar there. I mean I think you have a really good point man, I think you have a really good point there. I think it’s something nobody talks about, especially on Twitter. I don’t think that Moral Compass is there to even have that conversation, I mean that’s that’s the game of Twitter.
P: Yeah dude, the way you got a look at it is, where is value being created. So let’s separate Bitcoin, let’s think of that.
Bitcoin is a decentralized global digital gold, it is a store of value, ignore people saying it’s volatile. It is a store of value, a medium of exchange. But as more people join Bitcoin, join that network, it grows in value.
And the more money that’s locked into it, increases in value. So it kind of makes sense to become part of that, to own a piece of that, because if it continues to grow you kind of have something.
Most of these altcoin projects, if you look at them. I’m going to hazard a guess if you go to the CoinMarketCap, pick the top 250. I’m going to say that 95% of them will not materialy exist in five years.
And when I say materialy exist, they might exist, you might be able to trade the coins on the exchange but the projects haven’t done anything, there is a little utility, nobody’s using them. So they won’t have been a successful.
And therefore the reality is you’re buying something or buying into something you probably know is going to fail, therefore for you to extract more value you’ve got to move that on to somebody else in the future, now you could argue that’s the same for Bitcoin, but I do see it’s different.
And therefore if you want to be part of that game that’s cool, I just don’t think I want to be part of that anymore, I’m not comfortable with that, I’m not comfortable with us convincing ourselves that these things have value when they quite patently, it’s patently obvious they don’t and patently obvious most of it’s going to fail and therefore if someone’s extracting value from at someone’s gotta put value in for that person, yeah I’m just not cool with that right now.
N: I like it man, I like it. I like where you stand on that I definitely agree with you, you know I think this bear market is making…
P: Let me just explain it another way, right now if you create a podcast right, I’m creating value in that I’m creating knowledge, somebody wants to listen to that podcast and they get value from it right, they get some form of entertainment, education from it. So I’m like right I’m creating value there, my way to extract value from that is like OK I’ve got an audience, I’ll go to an advertiser who’s got a product they want to sell which also has value, and I’m going to charge them and amount. That’s how I’m inputting value and extracting value.
I don’t believe that’s going to exist for the majority of these crypto projects, I don’t believe that value of exchange exists. So it’s just a game of Hot Potato.
N: I agree, I agree. I mean I find it interesting how at the very beginning of the year, we all, maybe not all of us, but there’s a group of .people and I would say a large percentage of the people who I mean, probably very new to crypto, but also had all convince themselves that this is the next big thing, that Ethereum said, Tron said, that XRP said, or whatever you know. We won’t dive in super deep into XRP, I know you’ve got a special place in your heart for that one.
P: Hey but dude, look I’m a hypocrite right, I’m an absolute hypocrite and I’ve apologized for this. You know I believed it, I was like this is a revolution, all this stuff going to make sense, we’re going to be using all these tools and like someone’s going to spend Dash, someone’s going to use Litecoin.
Yeah and like we need private currencies, this super computer that you can run computation,like I mean I was part of it.
And then I think I peaked when I went out and said I think Polymath, I was like I did the interview, this is going to be huge, this is going to be a top ten by market cap, it’s going to have this much value.
And then and then I was like, over a period of time I started to think, and definitely the bear market helps. I started to think yeah I think I’ve got some of this wrong. Yeah I think I was a bit too much hubris and I apologize for that because, you know I think it takes people a bit of time, maybe a bear market to realise, is what I’m saying true here. So yeah.
N: Yeah I think it has to do with the hype man, I really think it has to do with the hype. It’s like an addiction, and it’s not just, it’s not an addiction just for me, or for you, but it’s an addiction for all of us. Because we’re all, it’s a weird, not to get a little too woo woo or too psychological, but it’s a weird group experience, where we are all experiencing this same belief system, and the same mentality all at the same time, and we’re all feeding it more and more and more. Until finally the real bubble that actually popped was our belief system in this stuff, in my opinion.
Our bubble popped and we all started to see things a little more clearly, we’re all like oh ok so that, well the ripple I bought at $3 probably wasn’t a good purchase, or this coin that I bought it this price might not actually have the use case that they say they’re going to have, they just wrote a white paper.
I know I’m talking about this a lot on this podcast but that shit just interests me, it’s very interesting to see how a whole group of people can all agree on one thing for a specific period of time. And then were all I would say, maybe not all of us, but I would say the large majority of us are now kind of moving into the reality again. We’re all just kind of saying ‘oh wow’.
I think it’s the bear market and I also think it has to do a lot with education dude, I think the fact that you educated yourself, and a continuing to educate yourself is probably helping expand your awareness around all these topics.
P: Yeah and I think the arguments help by the way, I think the impassioned arguments are a good thing. You know because, if you’re going to get yourself into a debate you’ve gotta educate yourself first right, and sometimes I get into the debates with people, it might even be with one of the ripple coiners, so I have to, and then I realised I’m out of my depth. I’m sometimes repeating things other people say, so I have to go and do my research and find out if these things are true that people are saying.
But yeah education is super important, I also by the way, I’m glad the whole bubble happened, and I’m glad the bear markets happened and let me explain to you why right.
As I said I think Bitcoin is really important, I think it’s super important and I’ve said this and discussed this with maximalists.
I think whole FOMO and the alt coin market, and tokens and everything that happened had a net benefit for Bitcoin In that it created all of this interest, and all of these people came to the market, had all of this interest, created all of this exposure.
If Bitcoin maximalists are right, these people are gonna, all the roads will lead back to Bitcoin. So it’s a route of introducing people to Bitcoin, so I think there is a net benefit.
I also think bubbles are good because there are people out there with money, and those people with money want to make more money. Bubbles bring capital into the market and with capital you get to try all of these experiments, and see what works and what doesn’t
Yep loads is fail but it’s still a good thing, and the bear market is good because then it really exposes what is of value, and what isn’t.
And I think, like I don’t always like the comparisons to the the .com era, but there are, the key comparison is is that there was a bubble, a bunch of capital came in, people created a bunch of projects, there were some huge failures with Webvan and boo.com, where too much money was invested into things that weren’t ready.
Out of the ashes we got Google we got Amazon and eventually we got Facebook.
Because of the lessons that were learned. Exactly the same is going to happen with crypto and a lesson may be learnt that it is only Bitcoin, or it is Bitcoin and a stable coin, or is Bitcoin a stable coin and security tokens? we’re going to find that out we’re going to find out what works but that can only really happened with the bubble.
41:15 | 1:00:07
N: I love it, I love it. Are you, would you describe yourself as a maximalist now? Are you a Bitcoin maximalist?
P: No I always say I’m not, I fully 100% sympathize with it and you know people always say ‘oh you’ve just became a maximalist’ or ‘you’re just hanging out with maximalists’ and I’m like listen, I’ve done 56 interviews right, and for each interview I do a day of preparation, and then I do my follow-ups. So I do my research, I’m reading other stuff all the time. So like if I’m sympathising with a maximalist it’s a natural conclusion from all the work I’ve done, I’m not a maximalist right.
I want experimentation, you know maybe something can be built on Ethereum that’s cool, probably not I have my doubts.
Stablecoins despite what maximalist say, I buy the argument for them, maybe it’s more of a fintech thing.
Like when I interviewed Zach Prince at BlockFi he said ‘there are people all around the world who want to borrow dollars’ say in Argentina, it makes no sense for them to put all of them money in Bitcoin, it’s too volatile. But they want to borrow dollars, and the easy way for them to borrow dollars is for them to borrow from us, us to issue them a stable coin like GUSD, they can transfer that to their local exchange they convert that into the local currency the Peso, as and when they require.
That is a use case it makes sense, like whether or not maximalists like it or not, it makes sense. So no, I fully appreciate and sympathize with maximalism I’m just not there yet, I might never be.
I think it’s probably useful being a podcaster to not allow myself, but I definitely appreciate and sympathize with a lot of their views, because you know what some of them I’ve been here for 5/7/8/10 years, they’ve seen all coin projects come and go and they’ve seen repeat failures, and they’ve seen scams, they’ve seen people lose money and they’re probably just tired of the bullshit.
N: Probably man, probably. I can’t even imagine man I mean, I saw some posts today about Filecoin you know, crazy crazy, people promised things that was supposed to be here years ago, and there’s nothing even coming up, I mean I do agree with you though it is positive for the space to have more attention on it and even though probably 99+% of these projects won’t survive hopefully at least it brought some more attention to Bitcoin and the reason why we’re out here creating it you know, and working on this.
P: Yeah I mean God knows what’s going to happen with Filecoin, with Tezos, nobody’s got any idea. I keep saying like what is shipped, like what are shipped. I mean Augurs shipped right, Augur has its own challenges like I can’t even get into the debate about Augur because when I see people debating I’m like I’ve got no idea what you’re talking about, like I understand that it’s a betting market, but like I’ve got no idea when you’re talking about it. Tony Cheng did a really great article I don’t know if you follow him, he’s awesome.
He did a really great article about Augur, and the problems with oracles and decision-making and I was reading that going, god this is really interesting, I don’t get it. But like not much is shipped, I mean what is shipped, what is shipped? like shipping they’ve raised billions but they aren’t shipping.
And I think that’s a real problem, and it might just come down like cryptocurrencies might just be money, it might just come down to the fact that it’s money we’re dealing with and it won’t be other things, other assets, I don’t know. We’ll see.
I think it will be, I think in-game items are going to be relevant, I think if we get to the Ready Player One, have you seen Ready Player One yet?
N: Yeah yeah, it’s a good movie
P: So I like I totally buy that in 10-15 maybe even 5 years time, like my son or my daughter or their children are going to come home and rather than like my son is at the moment, he goes straight onto FIFA, he might put his headset on and be in a room with his mates right, just hanging out, or he might go into like I don’t know, an Arena with his mates to play a game, or or into some guy’s yard right, and when they go there I buy the idea that someone maybe wants to buy this Limited Edition poster, or this furniture that’s in their room, but only they can have.
So I buy the argument, I can see those kinds of things happening and I can see digital currencies being used to buy digital assets within those environments.
You know there may be like smart people out there who would explain to me you know Peter you’ve got this entirely wrong, but for now I buy that argument.
N: I mean I like that argument specifically because I love, I mean I used to love Pokemon man,you know like I was a Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, I loved card games as a kid. And the concept of having a digitized version of that where there’s literally one card, or there’s 50 of the same cards and there’s a digital Marketplace where you can trade them and go back and forth I can pull it up on an app on my phone, I mean I think that’s the future, I think when someone nails that that’s a billion-dollar, trillion-dollar industry possibly, in itself so I’m bullish on that stuff.
P: Who knows man I don’t like making predictions anymore
46:17 | 1:00:07
N: Yeah out of all the people that you’ve interviewed, do have kind of a standpoint or a position on whether Bitcoin is more of a currency, or a store of value, or both. Like what’s kind of the consensus maybe from you or from all the people that you’ve interviewed?
P: Yeah that’s a great question. I guess, I guess I don’t want to pigeon-hole it, because I think it’s something unique right. It’s you can say it’s got properties of gold, but it isn’t gold because gold you can hold and you can make stuff out of. You can say it has properties of money but it isn’t money right, because it has all these other properties which make it different from money, like I think, I think it’s like this unique thing that’s a combination of things. I think it is a, I think it is something of monetary value which you can exchange with people and send around the world, but the design of it also makes it a store of value, but I think it’s entirely unique and it’s like, I interviewed Vijay Boyapati and I liked his take, and he said to me he said ‘it’s like gold but it has this magical ability that you can teleport it’
N: I think I saw him tweet that the other day, I like that a lot.
Yeah that’s super awesome, it’s super great. I mean I’m with you on that man I think that that’s specifically, that question right there is one that we haven’t discovered yet. You know we’ve seen the community obviously be very very bullish on it’s a currency and a form of payment in the beginning, and still there’s a lot of people that are.
And now we see more of these institutions coming in, and a lot of these guys are talking about it as a store of value, as a digital gold. I’m still not convinced we’ve found the end game for it yet so I’m kinda with you on that.
P: I think pigeon holing it doesn’t work, I think it’s not money and its not gold, it’s a cryptocurrency. Which means it has these properties which make it similar to gold and similar to money but it’s a cryptocurrency so it’s kind of its own thing
48:24 | 1:00:07
N: I dig it, I dig it. What are you, as we wrap this up -what’s the plan for 2019 man, what’s your goal? you’re obviously going to do more podcasts have you got any other plans or anything you can share with us?
P: Yeah I keep growing the podcast, keep working on that. You know my focus is just being a parent and is to have that ah kind of regular sustainable income, that’s my entire focus now.
But I do want to expand so I’d like to do more location work, so I think I would like to go to specific places, like I want to go up to Malta ,just spend a week there, meet with regulators, meet with companies, meet with lawyers. You know find out what’s going on there. I’d like to do the same in Wyoming. So I’d like to do some location stuff.
I’d like to do video interviews actually in person, I think that would be cool and I think I’m probably going to, I’m thinking- I’ll share this with you, I’ll tell you what I’m thinking you tell me what you think. Like lost the money, all rather sad. But one of the tweets I put out the other day was the Tweetstorm about doing side gigs, if you want to do side gigs here all the tools you can use, it’s how you create a website and a brand, and a logo blah blah. So what I’m thinking of doing is, is just doing like a very transparent live ‘this is how I run What Bitcoin Did.’ let’s see if I can make a million again right, let’s see if I can make a million with What Bitcoin Did.
The way I’ll do that is by just by showing how I do marketing, how I build the website, how I run the podcast, almost as a live transparent window into what I’m doing, the lessons I’ve learnt, you know how I find advertiser’s, how I charge, how I run marketing. And just put all of that on my website so people can follow, but also within that hopefully have some lessons. So they think right, I want to launch a podcast, great Pete’s created this lesson here that tells me how to create a podcast, right I want to market, like somebody might create a retail store and they think right, I want to market my retail store, great Pete’s got this whole bit on his website about marketing and SCO, and email marketing.
So I think I’m going to just create a transparent window into what I do, and turn that into a bunch of lessons that hopefully help people to create their own, maybe a side gig or private businesses.
Let’s see if we can let’s see if we can make a million again and this time not blow it, what do you think?
N: I love it dude, I absolutely love it. I mean everything that I do, or any company that I work with, it’s all about storytelling.
So that right there is, you already have people captivated by your story, you might as well share it even more with them, man I fucking love that idea.
P: Right, well let’s do it then, you’ve got the exclusive on that.
N: Hell yeah, perfect, perfect!
P: What about you, what’s coming up for you Nye?
N: Man, I mean this podcast, people will be listening to it already, already been launched. But that’s a first step for 2019. And then I don’t know man, I’m letting the schedule be open, I want to do a lot more conferences next year, I want to travel actually a lot more in Europe, that’s like one of my big plans is I’d love to get to Europe, I’d love to get to Spain, I really want to go to Venice, couple of other places, London obviously London. Once I can go there without being caught in the freezing cold I’ll be there, not a question. But yeah that’s kind of the plan man, travelling as much as I can and just building, I want to keep building, I want to keep learning.
P: Well dude I love what you’re doing, I think it’s awesome. And you know if one of those funny things, I don’t know if you’ve experienced it, and I should probably ignore it but, I never asked for this following on Twitter. Now don’t get me wrong I want it, it’s a marketing tool. You know fully transparent, if I release a podcast and I’ve got 40,000 followers on Twitter as opposed to 5,000 hopefully more people are going to see it, more people are going to share, it serves as a tool for my podcast.
One of the things, the side effects that comes with that is people, people want to bring you down right, they just want to attack you and it’s tough.
Because it works in proportions right, the more people that are following you, in that percentage there’s a higher total number of people who are going to want to have a pop at you ,and you find yourself end up defending yourself against people.
Like since I put out that tweetstorm, the amount of false accusations or assumptions that people have made, that I found myself defending, it’s hard right.
N: Dude it’s super hard man, I mean that’s one of the hardest things that, that I personally have to deal with as well dude. I think like so, I didn’t start my Twitter account so I would get a huge following you know, like when we met in Consensus I had like 5,000 followers and my Avatar was Bill Nye with a joint hanging out of his mouth and Bitcoin sunglasses you know.
P: Which by the way is very cool, I’m a big Bill Nye fan.
N: I mean it was a huge joke, and that’s how it started was I literally started an account to jump online and have fun, and shitpost, and and be a part of the community. And as the following grew, obviously the brand evolved and into something different.
But yeah man the more attention you have on you, like I don’t think people understand how, how much their attention weighs on you, you know. It’s an interesting, it’s an interesting factor to kinda observe. Because like, even if it’s some random dude with 15 followers online, he’s just saying something nasty about you, I mean I don’t know about you but it still affects me a little bit sometimes. I’m still like really man, you really have to say that. Like you don’t know me at all, you may have seen a few tweets from me, you may know what my face looks like, but the matter of fact is you don’t know who I am, you don’t know the experiences I’ve been through, you don’t know what defines me as a human and yet you are making a very concrete assumption about me.
And it just shows me what I don’t want to be doing with people.
P: Yeah I haven’t met a single person who has met you in real life, who doesn’t absolutely love you. And I think also, sometimes a Twitter profile can come across very different from who you are in person, like I see Twitter is just fun right, I love like trolling and winding people up in a fun way, in a teasing way right, and possibly I overstep the mark sometimes, possibly im like post rationalizing my behaviour, but actually maybe some of the stuff im doing is having an impact on people. I don’t mind a bit of trolling right, I’ll tell you what I just don’t like, I don’t like is when people make assumptions about you, like they make assumptions about you or your incentives or your your reason for doing the something, which are entirely wrong.
And then even if you, like one of the really interesting things I had this week was one guy went at me and he said. You know I’d put out this second tweetstorm afterwards, did you see the second one where I was saying about, like we need to talk about if you’re going to invest these are the risks? You know and some guy came at me and he said ‘you’re only talking about this now because you’ve lost all your money, you know why did you wait for an 85% drop to do this’ And I was like ok, well here you go. Here’s a Blog post on my website I wrote in February when I was still, on paper I was still wealthy right, but I still wrote an article then saying we need to talk about this, because people are losing money.
And you know he made an assumption and I had to correct him, and you know he appreciated that and he apologized. But the amount of time you can actually waste doing this, in the end I think you know what, probably just best ignoring it, not letting it get to you, moving on from that.
N: I get it man, I mean I ignore 99% of it, maybe a little bit less, but I ignore a large amount of it unless it’s like a direct attack on my integrity, that is something that I would need to defend you know, most of it’s just petty trolling, if it’s something that’s petty it’s it’s not something even worth my time and energy or attention in my opinion.
P: Yeah saying that, I troll the hell out of Ian Balina, so maybe, maybe I’m having an impact on him. Maybe I’m a hypocrite.
56:35 | 1:00:07
N: Who knows man, who knows. Alright well this is been fun dude, it’s always good to chat with you, for every body listening where can they learn more about you, where can they listen to the podcast and all that good stuff?
P: Well so, you can find me anywhere, like if you search on Google for What Bitcoin Did you’re going to find my podcast and probably all my social profiles, and you can also go to my website which is whatbitcoindid.com
The podcast is on SoundCloud, iTunes, Stitcher, TuneIn, Spotify, YouTube.
It’s like it’s everywhere, you can find it everywhere. You know if you do listen to it and you have any questions you can always reach out to me, my email address is email@example.com I pretty much reply to anyone, as long as it’s not nonsense. And I switched my Twitter, so I changed my Twitter profile to my personal one, my personal name so if you want to get me on Twitter it’s at Peter McCormack.
But yeah look I look forward to hearing from anyone, you know feel free to challenge me, criticize me, make suggestions on how I can do a better job. But yeah I’m pretty much an open book so.
N: Cool man, and I mean before we close this I just want to give a big shout out to you Bro, like for real, you’ve been way beyond supportive. Even launching this podcast, you know I messaged you, right now it’s the middle of the December so I messaged you like a week or two ago and I was like ‘Yo man I’m starting this podcast would you like to be a guest’ and instead of being like wow you’re doing a podcast too, like some people might do, you came out and you were like ‘no way that’s awesome, we’re going to be competition but guess what, here is all the things that I do, here is exactly like my format, you should use this, you should do this and this and this, and I mean I can’t ever look at you as competition bro, you’re a really good friend and and I really appreciate that. So shout out to you Bro.
P: Yeah well thanks, well I had it, my buddy Rich Roll which by the way check ihs podcast out, and he’s like way more successful than I am. He probably gets hundreds of thousands of downloads a month. But I said the same to him, I’ve got a podcast and he was like buy this equipment, get this stuff. I think if you pay-it-forward and you help others it’s going to come back to you anyway, and look dude I’ve got nothing but appreciation for how you’ve shaped your life the decisions you’ve made. I don’t give a shit about any of the people who troll you, I will always have your back.
And I just, I might not agree with all your coins you’re interested in, but people aren’t always going to agree with me with some of the things I’m interested in.
But it doesn’t stop us being friends and helping each other out, I think you going to smash it. I remember when I first met you, and I think you had like 5000, or 8000 Twitter followers, and then I looked the other day and you were like at 40,000. I was like god he’s ahead of me, so I was like so right I’m going to write a tweet Storm, that’s going to take you down! Hahaha.
I didn’t do it because of that, but healthy competition is good.
But no you’re a friend, I wish you all the luck in the world with this, and you’ve got my support, you need any help you reach out to me, and I’ll do everything I can to support what you’re doing and good luck to you man.
N: Thank you brother appreciate it, appreciate it. Alright guys as always this is your boy Nye with another episode of Evolvement, this time we had the man Peter McCormack with What Bitcoin Did on the show, thank you again Peter for joining us and everybody we will catch you next time, peace.